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<blockquote data-quote="usernametaken" data-source="post: 436992" data-attributes="member: 6820"><p>Army Doc,</p><p></p><p>I haven't bred cows so take this with a grain of salt, but I figure a mammal is a mammal. I've bred dogs for about 15 years. </p><p></p><p>When is it linebreeding and when is it inbreeding ? The age old question. Some people believe it is all inbreeding. The phrase I hear most often is it's linebreeding when it works and inbreeding when it doesn't. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Not too helpful I know.</p><p></p><p>A favored cross in Quarter Horses was grandsire to granddaughter. I don't think you'll see many ill effects from that one cross, unless you continue getting closer in subsequent generations. 1st cousins my veternarian actually thinks is a great idea. Uncles would be about the same degree.</p><p></p><p>I accidentally bred a sire/daughter litter. I was scared to death, but wow, what a nice litter. However, upon the advice of my vet, I sold them all on spay/nueter basis only. Not something I normally do. I sort of understand what my vet is saying but don't know if I can explain it - basically it goes like this - when you linebreed and stack the genes so closely together, you usually are ok that first generation. That is why that litter was ok. The danger is, according to my vet, in the next generation. If you take this close bred, actually inbred dog and outcross it to a totally different line, the chances of those genes pairing up with something negative is increased many times. Makes sense but doesn't make sense. Let's just say I totally trust and admire the knowledge of this particular vet.</p><p></p><p>I own a stud dog, not bred by me, but tightly linebred for 50 years of pedigree behind him. He is 7 years old and the picture of health and always has been. Even better, his offspring are predictable, no matter who you breed him to. But that old breeder where he came from had no problem with culling and he passes on desireable traits.</p><p></p><p>When have you linebred to much ? In dogs, you will see litter sizes begin to decrease. The vitality of the newborn will begin to diminish. You won't see them latching on and nursing within minutes of birth anymore.</p><p></p><p>AI is a great tool and can bring in great genetics that you otherwise wouldn't get. However, there are some things about it that worry me. 1. If you breed always and only AI you could be masking some problems with conception naturally in both the sire and/or dam. No one wants a dog who can ONLY be bred by AI anymore than they want pups that can ONLY be delivered by cesarian. 2. selection is often based purely on numbers and pictures. Seeing is believing.</p><p></p><p>Ideally I think if all animals, cows, dogs, whatever, were first bred the old fashioned way, and only using AI after that first successful calving the old fashioned way, then our stock would remain healthy in their reproductive capabilities.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="usernametaken, post: 436992, member: 6820"] Army Doc, I haven't bred cows so take this with a grain of salt, but I figure a mammal is a mammal. I've bred dogs for about 15 years. When is it linebreeding and when is it inbreeding ? The age old question. Some people believe it is all inbreeding. The phrase I hear most often is it's linebreeding when it works and inbreeding when it doesn't. :) Not too helpful I know. A favored cross in Quarter Horses was grandsire to granddaughter. I don't think you'll see many ill effects from that one cross, unless you continue getting closer in subsequent generations. 1st cousins my veternarian actually thinks is a great idea. Uncles would be about the same degree. I accidentally bred a sire/daughter litter. I was scared to death, but wow, what a nice litter. However, upon the advice of my vet, I sold them all on spay/nueter basis only. Not something I normally do. I sort of understand what my vet is saying but don't know if I can explain it - basically it goes like this - when you linebreed and stack the genes so closely together, you usually are ok that first generation. That is why that litter was ok. The danger is, according to my vet, in the next generation. If you take this close bred, actually inbred dog and outcross it to a totally different line, the chances of those genes pairing up with something negative is increased many times. Makes sense but doesn't make sense. Let's just say I totally trust and admire the knowledge of this particular vet. I own a stud dog, not bred by me, but tightly linebred for 50 years of pedigree behind him. He is 7 years old and the picture of health and always has been. Even better, his offspring are predictable, no matter who you breed him to. But that old breeder where he came from had no problem with culling and he passes on desireable traits. When have you linebred to much ? In dogs, you will see litter sizes begin to decrease. The vitality of the newborn will begin to diminish. You won't see them latching on and nursing within minutes of birth anymore. AI is a great tool and can bring in great genetics that you otherwise wouldn't get. However, there are some things about it that worry me. 1. If you breed always and only AI you could be masking some problems with conception naturally in both the sire and/or dam. No one wants a dog who can ONLY be bred by AI anymore than they want pups that can ONLY be delivered by cesarian. 2. selection is often based purely on numbers and pictures. Seeing is believing. Ideally I think if all animals, cows, dogs, whatever, were first bred the old fashioned way, and only using AI after that first successful calving the old fashioned way, then our stock would remain healthy in their reproductive capabilities. [/QUOTE]
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