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Late May - June Calving and Grass Fed Operation
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<blockquote data-quote="farmerjan" data-source="post: 1669877" data-attributes="member: 25884"><p>What [USER=14161]@gcreekrch[/USER] says is really suited to the cold climates as he lives and works in it. I have alot of respect for his methods.</p><p>Cows do not naturally wean their calves in most cases. Have had many that would have a big calf on them and then drop a new one that I was not expecting. Had a vet that was not very accurate in preg checking so alot of cows called open were not.... left the calves with the cows to go back with the bull to get rebred, figuring to pull the calves later at the next preg check... only to have the cows turn out to have been preg and then they had a new calf. Had to pull the older calf in a hurry so the new one could get milk. PLUS the cow needs a break from nursing the calf, and her system needs a chance to produce colostrum for the new calf and she will not produce much or very good colostrum if she is "supposed to have weaned her previous calf". Some do wean them, but more do not than do. </p><p>I have a 2 1/2 yr old that has a 3 month calf, that is still sucking a cow when she gets a chance. AND she was weaned for over a year away from the cows running with just other heifers from her group. They were weaned late though. She is going to be sold. I am not even going to try to use a nose flap or anything because I have seen her on 3 different cows now. Nothing will stop her.... except becoming hamburger for McDonalds.....out of a good cow too. So an example of one that would never have self weaned, and now won't even stay weaned....</p><p>Unless you have alot of good grazing that you can rotate cattle on for the better part of the year, a growing calf at 6-8-12 months cannot get all they need out of hay. You will be stunting and starving the feeders/weaned calves trying to let them compete with the older cattle in the winter time when they need the nutrition the most. Cows do not "play fair" when they are eating.... they won't say "oh you go ahead you are thinner and younger than me"..... they are going to make sure they get what they want and how much they want.....and leave the pickings for the smaller, younger and more timid animals. </p><p>Bull calves can get more "frisky" before 7 months, but the thing is the heifers will actually mature faster than the bull calves many times.... so even if the bull calves do not catch them, if they start cycling early, they will get caught by the herd bull if he is in the pasture. Certainly, most will be cycling before 12 months. I have had a few calves born to 15 month old heifers so they were cycling and getting bred at 6-7 months. Not ideal although our experiences have turned out okay....but they are always stunted/smaller than their counterparts of the same age.</p><p>If you read much on here, there is a thread by [USER=19683]@lithuanian farmer[/USER] about their experiences with bull calves since they do not castrate anything in her country/operation. But I do know that they do wean them off and run the bulls separate from the heifers after weaning. </p><p>We use the callicrate bander on the bigger bull calves and have gotten along well with it. BUT, we do not wait for them to get to 12-14 months. They are way too bullish by then and it would be very hard on them in general. Plus the masculine characteristics.... bullnecks especially, often do not decline after that as much as one would like. The testosterone helps with the increased growth to a point, but you are looking at a really good sized set of nuts at 12 months..... it would set them back alot. We find that doing them by 7-8 months.....600 lbs give or take...... is about the biggest we want to do. We do some cattle trading so the bulls that size are often bought ones. We try to do ours either as babies when they are easy to handle but might be a problem if we don't catch them.... or they wait til we run them through the chute and get worked.... just before they go to summer pasture. 6-10 weeks old usually. </p><p></p><p>Greg Judy has a whole different ball game with the weather and grazing conditions he has, than you do up there where you are. </p><p>Same with Joel Salatin. I am about 20 minutes from him, here in Va. I agree with some of what he does and we do rotational grazing as much as we can with the rented ground we have. But there are some things that I don't think he does all that well; except to tell others " how to do it". There are several others that do rotational grazing in the valley here that do a better job of it and incorporate some of the more conventional ways alongside the different types of rotational grazing. </p><p></p><p>Don't have any idea of your market for cattle there so don't know what the long term purpose and goal is. Some of what you do should be to accommodate the market you are selling your animals into. I like red cattle but the market here discounts them terribly. Black is what sells here so we mostly have what the market dictates in order to stay viable as a farm.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="farmerjan, post: 1669877, member: 25884"] What [USER=14161]@gcreekrch[/USER] says is really suited to the cold climates as he lives and works in it. I have alot of respect for his methods. Cows do not naturally wean their calves in most cases. Have had many that would have a big calf on them and then drop a new one that I was not expecting. Had a vet that was not very accurate in preg checking so alot of cows called open were not.... left the calves with the cows to go back with the bull to get rebred, figuring to pull the calves later at the next preg check... only to have the cows turn out to have been preg and then they had a new calf. Had to pull the older calf in a hurry so the new one could get milk. PLUS the cow needs a break from nursing the calf, and her system needs a chance to produce colostrum for the new calf and she will not produce much or very good colostrum if she is "supposed to have weaned her previous calf". Some do wean them, but more do not than do. I have a 2 1/2 yr old that has a 3 month calf, that is still sucking a cow when she gets a chance. AND she was weaned for over a year away from the cows running with just other heifers from her group. They were weaned late though. She is going to be sold. I am not even going to try to use a nose flap or anything because I have seen her on 3 different cows now. Nothing will stop her.... except becoming hamburger for McDonalds.....out of a good cow too. So an example of one that would never have self weaned, and now won't even stay weaned.... Unless you have alot of good grazing that you can rotate cattle on for the better part of the year, a growing calf at 6-8-12 months cannot get all they need out of hay. You will be stunting and starving the feeders/weaned calves trying to let them compete with the older cattle in the winter time when they need the nutrition the most. Cows do not "play fair" when they are eating.... they won't say "oh you go ahead you are thinner and younger than me"..... they are going to make sure they get what they want and how much they want.....and leave the pickings for the smaller, younger and more timid animals. Bull calves can get more "frisky" before 7 months, but the thing is the heifers will actually mature faster than the bull calves many times.... so even if the bull calves do not catch them, if they start cycling early, they will get caught by the herd bull if he is in the pasture. Certainly, most will be cycling before 12 months. I have had a few calves born to 15 month old heifers so they were cycling and getting bred at 6-7 months. Not ideal although our experiences have turned out okay....but they are always stunted/smaller than their counterparts of the same age. If you read much on here, there is a thread by [USER=19683]@lithuanian farmer[/USER] about their experiences with bull calves since they do not castrate anything in her country/operation. But I do know that they do wean them off and run the bulls separate from the heifers after weaning. We use the callicrate bander on the bigger bull calves and have gotten along well with it. BUT, we do not wait for them to get to 12-14 months. They are way too bullish by then and it would be very hard on them in general. Plus the masculine characteristics.... bullnecks especially, often do not decline after that as much as one would like. The testosterone helps with the increased growth to a point, but you are looking at a really good sized set of nuts at 12 months..... it would set them back alot. We find that doing them by 7-8 months.....600 lbs give or take...... is about the biggest we want to do. We do some cattle trading so the bulls that size are often bought ones. We try to do ours either as babies when they are easy to handle but might be a problem if we don't catch them.... or they wait til we run them through the chute and get worked.... just before they go to summer pasture. 6-10 weeks old usually. Greg Judy has a whole different ball game with the weather and grazing conditions he has, than you do up there where you are. Same with Joel Salatin. I am about 20 minutes from him, here in Va. I agree with some of what he does and we do rotational grazing as much as we can with the rented ground we have. But there are some things that I don't think he does all that well; except to tell others " how to do it". There are several others that do rotational grazing in the valley here that do a better job of it and incorporate some of the more conventional ways alongside the different types of rotational grazing. Don't have any idea of your market for cattle there so don't know what the long term purpose and goal is. Some of what you do should be to accommodate the market you are selling your animals into. I like red cattle but the market here discounts them terribly. Black is what sells here so we mostly have what the market dictates in order to stay viable as a farm. [/QUOTE]
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