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Joint Ill ? Confused
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<blockquote data-quote="rockridgecattle" data-source="post: 398673" data-attributes="member: 6198"><p>hello kimberly, sit back for a bit cause this will take a bit to write. I don't know much about pnemonia, or tmuch about BVB and IBR except you must vaccinate or some of these other problems stated on this web site. But scours, and navel ill these we have had problems with so this is what i know.</p><p>Navel ill 101.</p><p>firstly it;s a management issue I can say this cause we have had alot to do with navel ill these past two years. So no dig at you or your farm.</p><p>Second, a hard pull, backwards calf, dirty equipment, dirty us when checking inside the cow, dirty contaminated ground, to long of an abilical cord, a non existant ambilical cord, lack of colostrum...</p><p>...all or one of these present can contribute to navel ill.</p><p>Third the navel is a direct link to the liver and the liver is a direct link to everything else. the liver is the body's filter. When navel ill is left untreated no matter how severe or minor the infection is it gets to the liver and then to the rest of the body settling in the joints.</p><p>fourth navel is very very hard to treat. It requires dedication and strong drugs like nufor and an anti inflamatory like anafin. We use to use predef but anafin is better, There are others out there but i do not know their names.</p><p>Even with nuflor the fight is hard and once it gets to the joints even harder.</p><p>you may clear up the navel ill or not realize you have it and it 'cleared' on it's own but once it has reached the joints with no treatment the damage as been done.</p><p></p><p>So let's recap what you have said</p><p>1 the vet says it looks like it might have had navel ill.</p><p>2.he is 5 weeks old</p><p>3. treated and responded to treatment then relapsed</p><p>4. he is in pain...pencillin is not enough. Needs something to get deep into the tissue like nuflor.</p><p></p><p>now the math.</p><p>how much have you spent already. Drugs, needles, vet call, hay if you have to feed him.</p><p>if he is not good enough for the sale barn what then?</p><p>if he can't make it past the withdrawl time what then? can't butcher.</p><p>if he does make it past the withdrawl time are you willing to chance a fever, relapse...meaning another infection and still butcher?</p><p>what about the pain he is in are you willing to let him suffer?</p><p>After you have paid the vet bills and if you are able to sell it and it gets say $400.00 how much of that went to heal the calf from this one illness.</p><p>How much for vaccines, tags, de wormer for the cow and the calf.</p><p>How much is left over after that?</p><p>Then...How much did it cost to put up enough hay for that cow? Here we are probably going to pay $50.00 a bale delivered. Where you are how much? HOw many bales will that cow eat? Here we plan for 6-8 bales including bedding. But with a rough winter we like to see 10 just to have a few to play around with. How about the tractor cost to feed that cow, mineral, supplement. What are you left then at the end for profit? Or to live on?</p><p>These are all things we should think about when treating a calf or cow repeatedly for the same problem.</p><p></p><p>next</p><p>I'm not sure what you used for pain med was it an anti inflamatory?</p><p>have you decided did he responsd to the antibiotic or the pain med?</p><p>If it was the antibiotic and then a relapse you are looking at a for lack of a better word PI calf. "Persistantly infected" no amount of antibiotics will help and he is costing more money than he is worth and a decision needs to be made. Can the money be better spent else where? I do not ask this question llightly cause we to have over treated an animal thinking we could heal it and it ended up having to be put down. it's truely hard to make that call.</p><p>If he responded to the pain med maybe it's no more than a sore joint like we get but after 5 weeks of treating he should have gotten better...just like humans do.</p><p>how much more are you willing to spend. xrays are not cheap, neither is another vet visit, how much more in drugs while the little one is in pain?</p><p>Go to the board i think beginners and look up Caustic Bruno's post "reposting". I can not think of the original post name but check out the one i gave you. He has good insight on cattle and how they should work for us. I know these are the tough calls but...how much can you afford to spend when it keeps relapsing?</p><p>Just my two cents in a book. feel free to file it under "G" if you like. Just my experince with this sort of problem, and the new measures we have put place if something like this happens again. (the continueous treating and relapsing thing)</p><p>Good luck</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rockridgecattle, post: 398673, member: 6198"] hello kimberly, sit back for a bit cause this will take a bit to write. I don't know much about pnemonia, or tmuch about BVB and IBR except you must vaccinate or some of these other problems stated on this web site. But scours, and navel ill these we have had problems with so this is what i know. Navel ill 101. firstly it;s a management issue I can say this cause we have had alot to do with navel ill these past two years. So no dig at you or your farm. Second, a hard pull, backwards calf, dirty equipment, dirty us when checking inside the cow, dirty contaminated ground, to long of an abilical cord, a non existant ambilical cord, lack of colostrum... ...all or one of these present can contribute to navel ill. Third the navel is a direct link to the liver and the liver is a direct link to everything else. the liver is the body's filter. When navel ill is left untreated no matter how severe or minor the infection is it gets to the liver and then to the rest of the body settling in the joints. fourth navel is very very hard to treat. It requires dedication and strong drugs like nufor and an anti inflamatory like anafin. We use to use predef but anafin is better, There are others out there but i do not know their names. Even with nuflor the fight is hard and once it gets to the joints even harder. you may clear up the navel ill or not realize you have it and it 'cleared' on it's own but once it has reached the joints with no treatment the damage as been done. So let's recap what you have said 1 the vet says it looks like it might have had navel ill. 2.he is 5 weeks old 3. treated and responded to treatment then relapsed 4. he is in pain...pencillin is not enough. Needs something to get deep into the tissue like nuflor. now the math. how much have you spent already. Drugs, needles, vet call, hay if you have to feed him. if he is not good enough for the sale barn what then? if he can't make it past the withdrawl time what then? can't butcher. if he does make it past the withdrawl time are you willing to chance a fever, relapse...meaning another infection and still butcher? what about the pain he is in are you willing to let him suffer? After you have paid the vet bills and if you are able to sell it and it gets say $400.00 how much of that went to heal the calf from this one illness. How much for vaccines, tags, de wormer for the cow and the calf. How much is left over after that? Then...How much did it cost to put up enough hay for that cow? Here we are probably going to pay $50.00 a bale delivered. Where you are how much? HOw many bales will that cow eat? Here we plan for 6-8 bales including bedding. But with a rough winter we like to see 10 just to have a few to play around with. How about the tractor cost to feed that cow, mineral, supplement. What are you left then at the end for profit? Or to live on? These are all things we should think about when treating a calf or cow repeatedly for the same problem. next I'm not sure what you used for pain med was it an anti inflamatory? have you decided did he responsd to the antibiotic or the pain med? If it was the antibiotic and then a relapse you are looking at a for lack of a better word PI calf. "Persistantly infected" no amount of antibiotics will help and he is costing more money than he is worth and a decision needs to be made. Can the money be better spent else where? I do not ask this question llightly cause we to have over treated an animal thinking we could heal it and it ended up having to be put down. it's truely hard to make that call. If he responded to the pain med maybe it's no more than a sore joint like we get but after 5 weeks of treating he should have gotten better...just like humans do. how much more are you willing to spend. xrays are not cheap, neither is another vet visit, how much more in drugs while the little one is in pain? Go to the board i think beginners and look up Caustic Bruno's post "reposting". I can not think of the original post name but check out the one i gave you. He has good insight on cattle and how they should work for us. I know these are the tough calls but...how much can you afford to spend when it keeps relapsing? Just my two cents in a book. feel free to file it under "G" if you like. Just my experince with this sort of problem, and the new measures we have put place if something like this happens again. (the continueous treating and relapsing thing) Good luck [/QUOTE]
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