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<blockquote data-quote="SCRUBS620" data-source="post: 416831" data-attributes="member: 5302"><p>Oxyblast wrote:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thank you for admitting that you can have too many free radicals. It is a fine balance between the free radicals and the antioxidants that are able to give up an electron to stop the free radical cascade. I am not saying H2O2 is totally bad, not at all. I was simply pointing out that you were severly misleading people when you said time and again that H2O2 is totally safe and that it breaks down into only water and oxygen. NOTHING is totally safe. Oxygen, salt, water, and sugar are all essential for the lifegiving reactions in our bodies. Too much sugar and you have diabetes. Too much oxygen can cause oxygen poisoning (see article below). To much salt can cause lethargy, seizures, coma, and death. Too much water? Absolutely! (from Wikipedia) A case a few years ago involved a couple who adopted a little girl. She was rebellious so they tied her up and forced her to drink water, she died. Nothing is totally safe. Sure O2 bubbles out but only after the singlet oxygen is releases from the H2O2. What if that unpaired oxygen molecule attaches to something other than another singlet oxygen? They do not have the ability to target a certain atom or molecule. Whatever they come into contact with first that satisfies their needs will get oxidized, usually resulting in a free radical cascade in which the molecule that had its electron stolen steals an electron from a neighboring molecule until an antioxidant is encountered. Yes cells and organisms have defenses against free radicals but defenses can be overwhelmed. </p><p></p><p>You seem to love article so here are a few.</p><p> </p><p>Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Science, University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine, 730 William Avenue, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3E 0W3.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here Abeta is the oxidative agent but is shows that too many free radicals can cause death in healthy necessary cell, not just diseased ones. Heres another one that shows free radicals are harmful and can cause disease.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Apperently H2O2 is not totally safe. I am sure you will say that it was due to something other than the H2O2; twist away Oxyblast.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So yes you can have too much oxygen.</p><p></p><p>You know we could go on like this for a long time. I did not say your system for treating water did not work. I have told you again and again what my main complaint is, but you just dig up more far lying evidence (sea urchins this time :lol: ) and try to twist the evidence. H2O2 produces several free radicals or free radical producing entities. Singlet oxygen is very reactive and causes other free radicals to be formed. A different breakdown produces hydroxyl ions (OH-) which are very reactive also. I know they play roles in some chemical pathways but they can also damage other molecules. I dont know how your system works, it might be beneficial. I still have a problem with your proclamations of H2O2 as totally safe and as a cure all, your education techniques and use of teminology, and your assumptions drawn from obscure and or irrelevant research. I still believe that you would be better served by dropping all of this propaganda and just stating the hard facts. Sometimes the best and smartest thing someone can say is "I dont know". Tell them about the true benefits. Tell them about the actual statistics from your customers (% increase in fertility, ww, etc, actual decrease % or $ in health related costs,etc) rather than just stories of the farmers. </p><p></p><p>We have got to be boring the other people on this site out of their minds; sorry guys and gals 8) . I believe I have told you all that I can but I am sure you will pick it apart. I told you that I am not raling against your product rather your presentation and representation of the underlying mechanisms but I doubt that you are hearing this. I told you that all I want to see you do for the benefit of your customers and , I believe yourself, is to present everyone with the known facts (not stories, assumptions, or best fit scenarios) but I doubt that you will be willing or able to change due to the pre-existing ideas and long held beliefs. I am trying to set what you are saying straight and while you cannot exit the roles of the politician and salesman and look objectively at this and what I am trying to get across to you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SCRUBS620, post: 416831, member: 5302"] Oxyblast wrote: Thank you for admitting that you can have too many free radicals. It is a fine balance between the free radicals and the antioxidants that are able to give up an electron to stop the free radical cascade. I am not saying H2O2 is totally bad, not at all. I was simply pointing out that you were severly misleading people when you said time and again that H2O2 is totally safe and that it breaks down into only water and oxygen. NOTHING is totally safe. Oxygen, salt, water, and sugar are all essential for the lifegiving reactions in our bodies. Too much sugar and you have diabetes. Too much oxygen can cause oxygen poisoning (see article below). To much salt can cause lethargy, seizures, coma, and death. Too much water? Absolutely! (from Wikipedia) A case a few years ago involved a couple who adopted a little girl. She was rebellious so they tied her up and forced her to drink water, she died. Nothing is totally safe. Sure O2 bubbles out but only after the singlet oxygen is releases from the H2O2. What if that unpaired oxygen molecule attaches to something other than another singlet oxygen? They do not have the ability to target a certain atom or molecule. Whatever they come into contact with first that satisfies their needs will get oxidized, usually resulting in a free radical cascade in which the molecule that had its electron stolen steals an electron from a neighboring molecule until an antioxidant is encountered. Yes cells and organisms have defenses against free radicals but defenses can be overwhelmed. You seem to love article so here are a few. Department of Human Anatomy and Cell Science, University of Manitoba Faculty of Medicine, 730 William Avenue, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3E 0W3. Here Abeta is the oxidative agent but is shows that too many free radicals can cause death in healthy necessary cell, not just diseased ones. Heres another one that shows free radicals are harmful and can cause disease. Apperently H2O2 is not totally safe. I am sure you will say that it was due to something other than the H2O2; twist away Oxyblast. So yes you can have too much oxygen. You know we could go on like this for a long time. I did not say your system for treating water did not work. I have told you again and again what my main complaint is, but you just dig up more far lying evidence (sea urchins this time :lol: ) and try to twist the evidence. H2O2 produces several free radicals or free radical producing entities. Singlet oxygen is very reactive and causes other free radicals to be formed. A different breakdown produces hydroxyl ions (OH-) which are very reactive also. I know they play roles in some chemical pathways but they can also damage other molecules. I dont know how your system works, it might be beneficial. I still have a problem with your proclamations of H2O2 as totally safe and as a cure all, your education techniques and use of teminology, and your assumptions drawn from obscure and or irrelevant research. I still believe that you would be better served by dropping all of this propaganda and just stating the hard facts. Sometimes the best and smartest thing someone can say is "I dont know". Tell them about the true benefits. Tell them about the actual statistics from your customers (% increase in fertility, ww, etc, actual decrease % or $ in health related costs,etc) rather than just stories of the farmers. We have got to be boring the other people on this site out of their minds; sorry guys and gals 8) . I believe I have told you all that I can but I am sure you will pick it apart. I told you that I am not raling against your product rather your presentation and representation of the underlying mechanisms but I doubt that you are hearing this. I told you that all I want to see you do for the benefit of your customers and , I believe yourself, is to present everyone with the known facts (not stories, assumptions, or best fit scenarios) but I doubt that you will be willing or able to change due to the pre-existing ideas and long held beliefs. I am trying to set what you are saying straight and while you cannot exit the roles of the politician and salesman and look objectively at this and what I am trying to get across to you. [/QUOTE]
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