How Long Can Hay Last?

[bsmith]

I have property near College Station, TX (central Texas). This area of Texas goes through frequent drought and rain cycles. In wet years, hay from coastal and other hybrid bermuda grasses (Tifton85) is plentiful and relatively cheap. I am building a large metal storage building (site prep stage right now) and have been wondering whether it would be worthwhile to expand the building to be able to store enough hay to last multiple winters such that I could restock only when hay is plentiful, high quality, and relatively cheap.

The idea is that I would always use the oldest hay each winter and purchase hay during every plentiful summer. In good times, I might be able to buy hay three summers straight. But in extended drought times, I would skip purchasing scarce, expensive hay and just feed from my stockpile. I might need to go three winters on stored hay before good buying times arrive again.

For those of you who operate in my area and use similar high quality type hay, how many years do you believe that high quality hay stored just off a concrete floor (2x4's between hay and concrete) with roof and walls on all four sides would stay good for cow consumption?

None of the university and extension articles on forage storage address the maximum possible hay storage time. I found a few anecdotal comments on the web where farmers say hay 10 and even 15 years old was often preferred by cows over one year old hay. So while hay is always degrading with time, it seems that high quality hay stored in ideal conditions can stay quite nutritious for many years.

Assuming that hay can last sufficiently well to stockpile for years and assuming that I can afford the building size (building costs are extremely low for me as I have materials, equipment, and skills) and amount of hay needed to stockpile for my herd size, how many years supply (2,3, maybe 4) would you experienced operators in my area believe would be an ideal number to make hay purchases always occur on favorable terms?

 

[Angus Cowman]

anytime you can store hay you are money ahead I would like to have atleast 2 yrs hay stored and as for the nutrients
Eldon Cole from the University of Missouri did a study on it and I can't remmeber the exact results but I was thinking it said that you could go 3 yrs with only minor losses in protein and TDN

I would reccomend if possible not storing it on concrete If possible
I prefer rock as it lets any moisture drain away and doesn't casue the bales to sweat like concrete will

 

[BC]

A couple of years ago, I pulled a sample of some square bales that I knew were 10 years old. They were originally put up in 1997 and tested 14.4% CP. In 2007, I had uncovered some of those bales at the bottom and sent a sample in our county's hay evaluation clinic. It tested 14.2% CP.

Years ago, an Extension forage specialist named Don Dorsett, spoke at a producer meeting I attended and said hay would keep its quality if stored in a dry environment. he said he saw some alfalfa that had been stored for over 30 years and tested close to what it tested when originally stored.

 

[Suzie Q]

We store lucerne hay (alfalfa) We used to lose the bottom layer, but went on a hunt around some business and received pallets for free. Since storing them on pallets we have not lost the bottom layer. In this area you need to make sure that they are not being eaten by mice or rats. Which of course will attract snakes.

I also got rid of some ants once when they made a trail into the shed and I though they were after the leaf.

 

[1982vett]

I know lots of people store hay, equipment and have a shop all under one roof...I would recommend separate facilities for the hay or at least not make hay storage part of a shop and equipment area.......just to easy for fire to wipe out everththing. Long term storage of hay under livestock barns deposits plenty of dust on the hay as well, something I live with since 5 of my 8 barns also give shed access to livestock.

Dirt floors (4-6 inches of old hay from years of use) work for us also.

 

[gabby]

Don't bother with the 2x4's on the concrete. If it's a well-drained site and if the pad is raised 6-8 inches above the surrounding grade you will be better off stacking directly on the concrete (or dirt). Elevation, slope and drainage are the keys.

 

[backhoeboogie]

A couple of years ago, I pulled a sample of some square bales that I knew were 10 years old. They were originally put up in 1997 and tested 14.4% CP. In 2007, I had uncovered some of those bales at the bottom and sent a sample in our county's hay evaluation clinic. It tested 14.2% CP.

Wow! That's more extreme than anything I have seen.

In the '03 drought, 6 year old rounds of coastal went for $60 to a dairy. These bales had been stored outside but you have to remember how dry the climate can be here. Now that I think about it BC, the funny part of this is that it was '97 hay also.

 

[oscar p]

Last winter,I had hay in one barn that was 3 years old. I fed 2 bales old hay and 2 bales new hay. They ate the old hay first.Dont know why. Anyway,you could grab a hand full anywhere in the bale of the old hay and it smelled almost as good as the new. So I would say, Your on the right track. I stack my 5x5's 3 high,bottom row on gravel. It will have a layer of dust on it, but it will last for years.

 

[bsmith]

Thanks for all the great replies. I am now very confident that quality hay can last for years in good storage conditions. I have also picked up on two other good points, go BIG and go separate building on hay storage.

The one point still in question is whether it is ok to store hay directly on concrete. Many web sites recommend not to do that such as these http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... ll/eng2610 and http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/eng ... 93-005.htm and http://www.ultimatedressage.com/forums/ ... 90&start=0

It seems to me that moisture issues from hay storage on concrete is very dependent on your climate conditions and ground conditions beneath the slab. On my 470 acre property I have poured numerous small and large slabs. My software company office has 4800 sf of slab plus another 2000 sf of slab under a pavillion area. The 6800 sf of slab, even during construction times, never seemed to sweat or collect moisture. Nor have any of the other four utility slabs I have. But then again, there were never any hay bales on top of those slabs to prevent the concrete from "breathing" and evaporating any trapped moisture.

So I guess it is something I will have to experiment with and be prepared to deal with by spreading some lumber underneath the hay bales so as to provide a way for trapped moisture to leave without damaging the bottom layer of the hay bales.

My ultimate goal is to have 90 momma cows so that I can quit the sale barn and sell a potload of calves each year direct from the ranch. If I want 2-3 years worth of winter hay stockpiled for that size herd, the hay shed will need to be BIG. Oh well, I still have enough 2 7/8" steel tubing from my last 18 wheeler load from Mexico to make the necessary trusses to place on top of 6 5/8" tubing for columns. Seems my ranch is just one continuous construction project.

Thanks again for all your comments.
Bill

 

[1982vett]

Seems my ranch is just one continuous construction project.

Yes, ranching is a giant sink hole you throw money into for the dribble that comes back out.

 

[gabby]

I stack mine directly on the raised dirt floor. The bottom inch or two of the bales gets a little musty sometimes near the exterior drip line, but that's a small price to pay. I don't have to buy a truckload of boards and run my tractor on them or move pallets out of the way.

Good luck Bsmith. Looks like to me you need to store about 500 tons of hay for your expanded herd. That'll be a humdinger of a shed! Be sure to post pictures. I can put about 165 tons in my 56x60 shed, stacking 4x6 bales two high.

 

[Angus Cowman]

My ultimate goal is to have 90 momma cows so that I can quit the sale barn and sell a potload of calves each year direct from the ranch.

Thanks again for all your comments.
Bill

Bill it will be hard to get a pot load of calves with just 90 cows unless you are holding them til they are heavier than the normal 6-700 lbs
as you will have calves that don't quite fit the group and then you also have death loss
I have always figured 100 cows to get a pot load of 650lb (83)calves plus most buyers want them in same sex groups so then you need at least 200 cows so you can have a set of feeder hfrs and a set of feeder steers

 

[bsmith]

Bill it will be hard to get a pot load of calves with just 90 cows unless you are holding them til they are heavier than the normal 6-700 lbs
as you will have calves that don't quite fit the group and then you also have death loss
I have always figured 100 cows to get a pot load of 650lb (83)calves plus most buyers want them in same sex groups so then you need at least 200 cows so you can have a set of feeder hfrs and a set of feeder steers

Dang AC! I knew you needed some excess cows to net the approximately 83 calves needed for a pot load, but I didn't realize that 100 mommas was what it really takes to reliably achieve 83 uniform calves. And now there is this same sex group issue to deal with as well. You really know how to crush a guy's dreams!

465 of my 470 acres is available to the cows. It's mostly wooded with a 34 acre lake and three tanks. There is only a perimeter fence, no cross fences at all, just a trap area with corrals to work the cattle. Carrying 200 cows is not impossible, but it will take a lot of improvements to do that.

I may have to go to my ace in the hole sooner than I thought and that is to buy a traveling irrigation system to pump water and really maximize the 80 grass acres I have.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Sorry
I didn't mean to burst your bubble that is just the numbers I have always used
also I didn't mention the culls you have every yr on the cows or the open cows that don't breed back in the 60 day window
if you get in good with some buyers or a purebred operation who you buy bulls from they might buy your calves back and take the mixed loads alot of them do

 

[bsmith]

Sorry
I didn't mean to burst your bubble that is just the numbers I have always used
also I didn't mention the culls you have every yr on the cows or the open cows that don't breed back in the 60 day window
if you get in good with some buyers or a purebred operation who you buy bulls from they might buy your calves back and take the mixed loads a lot of them do

No problem bursting my bubble AC. Always better to know up front what the real situation is. I inquired with a few others in my area and there are a few buyers who will take a nice mixed sex pot load of calves. Of course, same sex pot loads of uniform calves bring the very best prices.

Seems like there is no end of goals and optimization levels to strive for in the cattle business.

 

[gabby]

Mixed loads aren't ideal but you can still do it, bsmith. I sold 50 mixed head of 700 pounders yesterday for $1.085 for the steers and .05 less for the heifers. The selling agent will fill out the truck with some of his 6-7 wts. With only 80 acres of grass you better stick with your goal of 100 fat girls (or less). You also need some cross fencing.

 

[BC]

Instead of running cows and calves, why don't you merchandise your grass through yearling steers or heifers. You can get one of the order buying companies in the area to put together a set of steers/bulls or heifers. That way you can sell in truckload lots. Buy those things in December or January and sell at this time of the year.

 

[bsmith]

BC, I have to admit that I have never realized that was an option. There are pros and cons with that approach, but for my situation there could be more pros. The cons are the wildness of the young animals (likely would have jumpers), higher odds of health problems, and the potential difficulty of arranging such a purchase. Although maybe some here could suggest potential suppliers close to my location.

The pros for me would be no bulls to coordinate and keep separate from the herd. With no cross fences I have always had to let bulls run with the herd year round and my calves were always weaned on wheels. Getting rid of momma cows and bulls and just taking yearlings to higher weight could be a nice alternative for my operation, especially since I have been resisting cutting up my place with more cross fences.

I can well imagination that raising yearlings comes with different and maybe bigger headaches than a cow/calf operation, but that really could be a better way for my situation. Thanks for the suggestion BC.

 

[BC]

The pros for me would be no bulls to coordinate and keep separate from the herd. With no cross fences I have always had to let bulls run with the herd year round and my calves were always weaned on wheels. Getting rid of momma cows and bulls and just taking yearlings to higher weight could be a nice alternative for my operation, especially since I have been resisting cutting up my place with more cross fences.

I can well imagination that raising yearlings comes with different and maybe bigger headaches than a cow/calf operation, but that really could be a better way for my situation. Thanks for the suggestion BC.

Cross fences could also make a yearling operation more efficient just like a cow-calf operation. Have you considered single strand high tensile wire for internal cross fence. A smaller trap with more wires will be needed to train cattle. After they get used to it not too many problems.

If you are interested you might contact Scarmardo Cattle Co. at Caldwell, TX not far from you. He has buyers in sales all across Texas 6 days a week.

I personally prefer thin, ugly, mismanaged cattle (bull yearling instead of steer, horns, never seen a feed trough or minerals or a vaccination needle) that have the potential to upgrade.