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<blockquote data-quote="CattleMan1920" data-source="post: 1549383" data-attributes="member: 37967"><p></p></blockquote><p>Really? Sounds like ************* is doing their best to produce cattle that are hard to get bred. Personally I call those type of cattle culls, and I don't care how good they look or what pedigree they have. And to make matters worse their willing to pass that trait on to their customers. I would sure hate to be the poor ........ who bought a heifer or cow that took 5 tries to get pregnant under ideal conditions and management. I'll stick with the UGA HERD guidelines, they do things the right way. IMO All the heifers get fed, bred and culled. No special treatment and no bad traits to pass on.</p><p><a href="http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/georgia-heifer-evaluation-and-reproductive-development-herd-pr.html" target="_blank">http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/georg ... rd-pr.html</a>[/quote]</p><p></p><p>You place all the blame on the dam, what about the environment, we had a brutally hot summer, and almost 80 inches of rain so far this year? or how about the A.I. tech, or any number of variables? Here is a bull from natural service, about 17 months old, he is for sale right now, $3000, not a bad bull, would work fine for a commercial producer, 12 categories over breed average, high scrotal, high HP, calving ease, but definitely not an A.I. son. You tell me, would it be easier to sell him, or a son of Basin Payweight 1682?</p><p></p><p><a href="https://cattletoday.com/forum/app.php/gallery/image/81" target="_blank"><img src="https://cattletoday.com/forum/app.php/gallery/image/81/mini" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></a></p><p></p><p>I'm sure you could pick him apart from a..s to snout. With that said, his dam, an 8-year-old cow, settled right away to a bull we had her with via natural service, no issues whatsoever, but after she gave birth to this guy we AI'd her to EXAR Denver 2002b about 60 days post-calving, it took 3 times to get her settled. How do you explain, maybe we suck at A.I. or it could be that A.I. is a bit more challenging than everyone would have you think. A bull is going to pound it out around the clock, you only have one shot with a small vial of semen and you are hoping that you can get her up at the absolute right time in the cycle. I think the bull has the advantage. If you think our operation is a bunch of culls, you are mistaken we settled 14 heifers, with over half to sexed semen (SAV Raindance) in the past month on the first try with no synch or Lutalyse. If we wanted to, we could breed our entire herd to SAV Raindance sexed semen and double our females in one season, we have options, tell me who can do that with a few bulls out in the field? As for the sale barn comment, it would be like flicking a switch, if we wanted to put a group of say 30 heifers with one of our AI sons, I'm pretty certain, he would go through them like a hot knife through butter, with the majority if not every single one settled in a 60 day window. I just don't want grandsons or granddaughters of AI bulls, I want direct sons and daughters. If it was all about how many we could have, I would have them expanding like rabbits out here. It's about WHAT we have over how many we have. More than 50% of our existing herd has Pathfinder dams in their lineage, and then we use AI on top of that, which brings a lot of Pathfinder lineage on the sire's side. Most of our AI sons or daughters can count multiple Pathfinders on both dam and sire sides of the pedigree, multiple generations back, and I can prove that to you with our registrations. Maternal traits come first and foremost in our breeding program. I'm not trying to brag, but I have to defend our animals against off the cuff remarks. If anything, it's ME that is causing the multiple attempts, not the animal, it's not always feasible for me to get the cow or heifer in at the absolute right time. I use a monitor and sometimes a cow will be in the sweet spot to breed at 2:30 a.m. on a night that is pouring rain. Am I going to go breed her at that time and under those conditions, most likely no, is a bull? You bet. That is why it can take multiple attempts, I may not breed her at the perfect time, I might wait until the next day which may be too late, or I will breed her too early because I know that I won't be getting up at 3:00 a.m. to breed a cow. I hope this lengthy explanation clears the air.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="CattleMan1920, post: 1549383, member: 37967"] [/quote] Really? Sounds like ************* is doing their best to produce cattle that are hard to get bred. Personally I call those type of cattle culls, and I don't care how good they look or what pedigree they have. And to make matters worse their willing to pass that trait on to their customers. I would sure hate to be the poor ........ who bought a heifer or cow that took 5 tries to get pregnant under ideal conditions and management. I'll stick with the UGA HERD guidelines, they do things the right way. IMO All the heifers get fed, bred and culled. No special treatment and no bad traits to pass on. [url=http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/georgia-heifer-evaluation-and-reproductive-development-herd-pr.html]http://beef.caes.uga.edu/programs/georg ... rd-pr.html[/url][/quote] You place all the blame on the dam, what about the environment, we had a brutally hot summer, and almost 80 inches of rain so far this year? or how about the A.I. tech, or any number of variables? Here is a bull from natural service, about 17 months old, he is for sale right now, $3000, not a bad bull, would work fine for a commercial producer, 12 categories over breed average, high scrotal, high HP, calving ease, but definitely not an A.I. son. You tell me, would it be easier to sell him, or a son of Basin Payweight 1682? [url=https://cattletoday.com/forum/app.php/gallery/image/81][img]https://cattletoday.com/forum/app.php/gallery/image/81/mini[/img][/url] I'm sure you could pick him apart from a..s to snout. With that said, his dam, an 8-year-old cow, settled right away to a bull we had her with via natural service, no issues whatsoever, but after she gave birth to this guy we AI'd her to EXAR Denver 2002b about 60 days post-calving, it took 3 times to get her settled. How do you explain, maybe we suck at A.I. or it could be that A.I. is a bit more challenging than everyone would have you think. A bull is going to pound it out around the clock, you only have one shot with a small vial of semen and you are hoping that you can get her up at the absolute right time in the cycle. I think the bull has the advantage. If you think our operation is a bunch of culls, you are mistaken we settled 14 heifers, with over half to sexed semen (SAV Raindance) in the past month on the first try with no synch or Lutalyse. If we wanted to, we could breed our entire herd to SAV Raindance sexed semen and double our females in one season, we have options, tell me who can do that with a few bulls out in the field? As for the sale barn comment, it would be like flicking a switch, if we wanted to put a group of say 30 heifers with one of our AI sons, I'm pretty certain, he would go through them like a hot knife through butter, with the majority if not every single one settled in a 60 day window. I just don't want grandsons or granddaughters of AI bulls, I want direct sons and daughters. If it was all about how many we could have, I would have them expanding like rabbits out here. It's about WHAT we have over how many we have. More than 50% of our existing herd has Pathfinder dams in their lineage, and then we use AI on top of that, which brings a lot of Pathfinder lineage on the sire's side. Most of our AI sons or daughters can count multiple Pathfinders on both dam and sire sides of the pedigree, multiple generations back, and I can prove that to you with our registrations. Maternal traits come first and foremost in our breeding program. I'm not trying to brag, but I have to defend our animals against off the cuff remarks. If anything, it's ME that is causing the multiple attempts, not the animal, it's not always feasible for me to get the cow or heifer in at the absolute right time. I use a monitor and sometimes a cow will be in the sweet spot to breed at 2:30 a.m. on a night that is pouring rain. Am I going to go breed her at that time and under those conditions, most likely no, is a bull? You bet. That is why it can take multiple attempts, I may not breed her at the perfect time, I might wait until the next day which may be too late, or I will breed her too early because I know that I won't be getting up at 3:00 a.m. to breed a cow. I hope this lengthy explanation clears the air. [/QUOTE]
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