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"Guts" and Butt
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<blockquote data-quote="DOC HARRIS" data-source="post: 1033243" data-attributes="member: 1683"><p>Chuckie-</p><p></p><p>Having perused "Ole Grit's" pedigree and numbers, I will not go into great detail concerning same because to do so would open up a "Pandora's Box" of prediliction opinions and possible prejudicial comments that would settle nothing and create a potential bias that is not justified. . . . . On the other hand, - - - - - I just cannot resist expressing my opinions. So here goes!</p><p></p><p>My personal opinion of several bulls comprising this bull's pedigree is less than complimentary for various reasons. G A R Retail Product (Ole Grit's Sire) is a terrific sire, and I have no argument with him - <em>per se!</em> However, <em>his</em> sire is GAR Precision 1680, who, in his own right, is one of the exemplary bulls in the Angus breed, and whose progeny appears in literally hundeds of thousands of current Angus cattle. BUT - he is the progenator of the lethal Genetic abnormality "Arthrogryposis multiplex (AM, or "Curly Calf Syndrome"), which ripped through the Angus seedstock breeders' herds four or five years ago, and caused much angst among large and small breeders at the time! It is a simple recessive mode of inheritance, and DNA testing has been successful in subsequently detecting the carriers thereof. And, gratefully, your bull is declared Free of that problem! But caution is advised in making decisions regarding future matings, as is the case with all Genetic Abnormalities under management by breed Associations. Therefore, I have very little complaint with his being part of Grit's ancestry. (Exceptions noted later).</p><p></p><p>The two primary objections that I have with Grit's pedigree are N Bar Emulation EXT (admittedly one of the premium Supreme bulls in the Angus breed!), and Bon View New Design 1407 (also considered by many excellent Registered breeder's as one of the "Big Ticket" bulls of the breed!) . . . and I don't completely disagree with that premise either! So, why am I so oppossed to those particular sires when they are admired and respected by so many knowledgeable breeders? Admittedly, it is the result of personal bias on my part! As adament as I am against "Single Trait Selection" choices in mating decisions, my opposition to BOTH of these bulls is because of "Single Trait Selection" characteristics! I deplore having to admit it, but it is true. With EXT, it is the abominable Docility trait that he stamped on his progeny that is like a" Firestorm" in many of his downline offspring. As time and continued matings dilute those lousy attitude genes that he spread like a disease through the Angus breed, his negative influence is dulled and minimized exponentially. But, to his credit, his many OTHER optimal characteristics have been a Godsend to many breeders. Therefore, the emphasis of combining <strong>BALANCE</strong> and "<u>Multiple</u> Trait Selection" choices in ALL mating decisions works to perfection if it is followed judiciously and ruthlessly, with DNA Genomic Enhanced EPD's to support those decisions. The very same principles apply to the Genetic utilization of Bon View New Design 1407 in mating decisions. My contention and conflict with "1407" is the fact that he passes on to his progeny (and through several generations down line from him) a definite lack of musculature affecting the expensive cuts of Retail Meat Products - Rib Eye, Tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Shoulder Roasts, Lower Round Steak, et al. Many of his other EPD's and their Accuracies are optimal and more than acceptable. That is why many breeders jumped on the "1407" bandwagon and enhanced their seedstock inventories. But he absolutely produced what I call "Funnel Butts" in many of his heifers, and the result was pinched butts and Funnel Butts and chopped off hindquarters in too many Angus cattle. I railed against that phenotypic trait for years - and STILL do! And I am happy to see that the tendency is fading away from what it was several years ago. Angus breeders are transitioning back to more moderate sized cattle with more obvious "BEEF" characteristics instead of half-baked black "Dairy type" wimps. So, it looks like we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't!</p><p></p><p>Chuckie- insofar as to where I think that you can help your genetics over DeerValley Retail Grit S6125, I would suggest that you focus on <strong><u>BALANCING</u></strong> slightly less BW (+1.0 - 2.0), slightly increase WW (up to +/- 55), Yearling Weight is okay, increase Docility expressly (+30 or more), do NOT increase the Milk EPD's because it relates to lower Birth Weight and loss of musculature (again!) And, by the way, Grit's picture does not show his lack of hindquarter genetics because he is so fat, and the lower half of his hindquarter (round) is <strong>not</strong> red meat, but fat! Ultimate result? "Funnel Butt" and hindquarter thickness not carried through, particularly with his daughters. His $EN EPD (-2.89) should be a positive number. This EPD indicates that his females are hard keepers and are costing you money. His Carcass EPD's are about average and not bad because they are almost in balance. Marb and RE are antagonistic with each other, and because Angus genetics are usually higher for Marbling, RE usually suffers reactively. The $Values could be higher - particularly $B. There are many bulls currently available with higher $B numbers, and that reflects in the income that you get from feeder cattle profits on the rail.</p><p></p><p>Remember, Chuckie, "A "good" bull is half of your herd. A <strong><u>POOR</u></strong> bull is your entire herd for years to come if you retain heifers". If you want to breed excellent cattle, you must use an excellent bull! And GOOD bulls cost money, which will be returned to you in their progeny!</p><p></p><p>I didn't mean to write a textbook on your bull, but you wanted "fight'n". :roll: :tiphat: </p><p></p><p>DOC HARRIS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DOC HARRIS, post: 1033243, member: 1683"] Chuckie- Having perused "Ole Grit's" pedigree and numbers, I will not go into great detail concerning same because to do so would open up a "Pandora's Box" of prediliction opinions and possible prejudicial comments that would settle nothing and create a potential bias that is not justified. . . . . On the other hand, - - - - - I just cannot resist expressing my opinions. So here goes! My personal opinion of several bulls comprising this bull's pedigree is less than complimentary for various reasons. G A R Retail Product (Ole Grit's Sire) is a terrific sire, and I have no argument with him - [i]per se![/i] However, [i]his[/i] sire is GAR Precision 1680, who, in his own right, is one of the exemplary bulls in the Angus breed, and whose progeny appears in literally hundeds of thousands of current Angus cattle. BUT - he is the progenator of the lethal Genetic abnormality "Arthrogryposis multiplex (AM, or "Curly Calf Syndrome"), which ripped through the Angus seedstock breeders' herds four or five years ago, and caused much angst among large and small breeders at the time! It is a simple recessive mode of inheritance, and DNA testing has been successful in subsequently detecting the carriers thereof. And, gratefully, your bull is declared Free of that problem! But caution is advised in making decisions regarding future matings, as is the case with all Genetic Abnormalities under management by breed Associations. Therefore, I have very little complaint with his being part of Grit's ancestry. (Exceptions noted later). The two primary objections that I have with Grit's pedigree are N Bar Emulation EXT (admittedly one of the premium Supreme bulls in the Angus breed!), and Bon View New Design 1407 (also considered by many excellent Registered breeder's as one of the "Big Ticket" bulls of the breed!) . . . and I don't completely disagree with that premise either! So, why am I so oppossed to those particular sires when they are admired and respected by so many knowledgeable breeders? Admittedly, it is the result of personal bias on my part! As adament as I am against "Single Trait Selection" choices in mating decisions, my opposition to BOTH of these bulls is because of "Single Trait Selection" characteristics! I deplore having to admit it, but it is true. With EXT, it is the abominable Docility trait that he stamped on his progeny that is like a" Firestorm" in many of his downline offspring. As time and continued matings dilute those lousy attitude genes that he spread like a disease through the Angus breed, his negative influence is dulled and minimized exponentially. But, to his credit, his many OTHER optimal characteristics have been a Godsend to many breeders. Therefore, the emphasis of combining [b]BALANCE[/b] and "[u]Multiple[/u] Trait Selection" choices in ALL mating decisions works to perfection if it is followed judiciously and ruthlessly, with DNA Genomic Enhanced EPD's to support those decisions. The very same principles apply to the Genetic utilization of Bon View New Design 1407 in mating decisions. My contention and conflict with "1407" is the fact that he passes on to his progeny (and through several generations down line from him) a definite lack of musculature affecting the expensive cuts of Retail Meat Products - Rib Eye, Tenderloin, Filet Mignon, Shoulder Roasts, Lower Round Steak, et al. Many of his other EPD's and their Accuracies are optimal and more than acceptable. That is why many breeders jumped on the "1407" bandwagon and enhanced their seedstock inventories. But he absolutely produced what I call "Funnel Butts" in many of his heifers, and the result was pinched butts and Funnel Butts and chopped off hindquarters in too many Angus cattle. I railed against that phenotypic trait for years - and STILL do! And I am happy to see that the tendency is fading away from what it was several years ago. Angus breeders are transitioning back to more moderate sized cattle with more obvious "BEEF" characteristics instead of half-baked black "Dairy type" wimps. So, it looks like we are damned if we do, and damned if we don't! Chuckie- insofar as to where I think that you can help your genetics over DeerValley Retail Grit S6125, I would suggest that you focus on [b][u]BALANCING[/u][/b] slightly less BW (+1.0 - 2.0), slightly increase WW (up to +/- 55), Yearling Weight is okay, increase Docility expressly (+30 or more), do NOT increase the Milk EPD's because it relates to lower Birth Weight and loss of musculature (again!) And, by the way, Grit's picture does not show his lack of hindquarter genetics because he is so fat, and the lower half of his hindquarter (round) is [b]not[/b] red meat, but fat! Ultimate result? "Funnel Butt" and hindquarter thickness not carried through, particularly with his daughters. His $EN EPD (-2.89) should be a positive number. This EPD indicates that his females are hard keepers and are costing you money. His Carcass EPD's are about average and not bad because they are almost in balance. Marb and RE are antagonistic with each other, and because Angus genetics are usually higher for Marbling, RE usually suffers reactively. The $Values could be higher - particularly $B. There are many bulls currently available with higher $B numbers, and that reflects in the income that you get from feeder cattle profits on the rail. Remember, Chuckie, "A "good" bull is half of your herd. A [b][u]POOR[/u][/b] bull is your entire herd for years to come if you retain heifers". If you want to breed excellent cattle, you must use an excellent bull! And GOOD bulls cost money, which will be returned to you in their progeny! I didn't mean to write a textbook on your bull, but you wanted "fight'n". :roll: :tiphat: DOC HARRIS [/QUOTE]
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