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<blockquote data-quote="DiamondSCattleCo" data-source="post: 156789" data-attributes="member: 2862"><p>Dodge 3500 4x4 Quad Cab. 8200 lbs is a little on the light side. Check out those links before you doubt what I say. In the Dodge world alone, there are a couple dozen well known 550HP+ 11 second trucks. Flaboy can likely chime in here with 6.0L Powerstrokes (I'm only familiar with the 12 second PS I built).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm a good cowboy gone bad. No masters degree, just a couple bachelors degrees in unrelated topics. However, the cowboy gene which had infested this family for hundreds of years skipped by my father, and one uncle. So while I was learning about cattle from grandparents and the one uncle, I was busy skipping school to go racing snowmobiles, bikes, cars, trucks, and anything else with an engine that I could learn how to start.</p><p></p><p>After a few years, I started building my own engines/vehicles, and spent 15 years building until I got out of it a year or so ago. The last 5 years were spent selling diesel performance parts (which I hated), building diesel race engines (which I loved) and, oddly enough, designing air intake systems, fuel systems, and injectors for light diesel trucks. My focus was the Cummins, however the occasional DMax and Powerstroke strayed into my paws.</p><p></p><p>I don't have a raft of textbooks to look things up in, however I can draw upon thousands of quarter miles runs, thousands of dyno runs, and plenty of failed (and, thankfully, successful) automotive powertrain designs.</p><p></p><p>I personally feel that gas engines have absolutely no place in the pickup truck world, including 1500 series trucks. As you say, gas engines can do the same work as a diesel, provided the gearing is there. Unfortunately, the real world rears its head when we start talking about gearing. Take, for example, your hypothetical situation from a couple messages back. Your gearing would actually be 7.68. The ring gear on that diff would be a monster, in order to maintain enough toughness to handle the torque of heavy pulling. So you build it, wrap enough iron around it to enclose it, and then lose a bunch of your offroad capabilities because your diff is now 3 inches lower to the ground than it was before.</p><p></p><p>And who only wants to go 60 mph? You'd also need at least 2 OD gears in the transmission to make the vehicle driveable during rush hour in the city. And since most high HP gas engines have a sharp rise and drop in the torque curve (not all I know), you need a close ratio transmission, of at least 5 gears, to attempt to accelerate a large load at the same rate of speed as a high torque diesel. So we need to stuff a 7 speed trans into the truck. Now we have additional parasitic drag from the weight of the gearbox and all those gears we're spinning.</p><p></p><p>And the list goes on and on. A high torque diesel, with a proper torque curve (I feel the Cummins is a proper torque curve for an engine, rapid peak, and flat right to redline), is easy to build a truck around that can do everything well including accelerate and tow. I know there are dozens of other factors that influence acceleration empty or loaded, however the more torque you have available, at lower RPMs, the less trouble you have to accelerate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think our little hypothetical situation may have confused you a bit, so lets get back to the real world for a bit:</p><p></p><p>2005 Ford V10 - 32 inch tires, direct drive, 4.10 rear axle ratio. At 60 mph, you're going to be revving somewhere around that 2600 RPM mark. A snoop through some of my old dyno sheets shows you're generating about 400lbft of torque. With the 4.10 rear axle ratio, you're putting about 1640 lbft of torque out on the axles.</p><p></p><p>2005 Dodge Cummins 610 - 32 inch tires, direct drive, 4.10 axle ratio. At 60 mph, I'll be revving right around that 2600 RPM mark as well. No need to snoop through dyno sheets, I know I'm putting out 590 lbft at 2600 RPM. Thats 2419 lbft of torque coming out of the tubes.</p><p></p><p>Empty or loaded, all other forces against acceleration including engine mass, aerodynamics, tire tread, etc etc etc, be darned, that Cummins is going to leave you breathing diesel smoke and will continue to do so until it runs out of RPMs at 3500 (at 3500 RPM, the Cummins is still kicking out more torque than the V10).</p><p></p><p>Egads, my fingers are tired :lol: </p><p></p><p>Rod</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DiamondSCattleCo, post: 156789, member: 2862"] Dodge 3500 4x4 Quad Cab. 8200 lbs is a little on the light side. Check out those links before you doubt what I say. In the Dodge world alone, there are a couple dozen well known 550HP+ 11 second trucks. Flaboy can likely chime in here with 6.0L Powerstrokes (I'm only familiar with the 12 second PS I built). I'm a good cowboy gone bad. No masters degree, just a couple bachelors degrees in unrelated topics. However, the cowboy gene which had infested this family for hundreds of years skipped by my father, and one uncle. So while I was learning about cattle from grandparents and the one uncle, I was busy skipping school to go racing snowmobiles, bikes, cars, trucks, and anything else with an engine that I could learn how to start. After a few years, I started building my own engines/vehicles, and spent 15 years building until I got out of it a year or so ago. The last 5 years were spent selling diesel performance parts (which I hated), building diesel race engines (which I loved) and, oddly enough, designing air intake systems, fuel systems, and injectors for light diesel trucks. My focus was the Cummins, however the occasional DMax and Powerstroke strayed into my paws. I don't have a raft of textbooks to look things up in, however I can draw upon thousands of quarter miles runs, thousands of dyno runs, and plenty of failed (and, thankfully, successful) automotive powertrain designs. I personally feel that gas engines have absolutely no place in the pickup truck world, including 1500 series trucks. As you say, gas engines can do the same work as a diesel, provided the gearing is there. Unfortunately, the real world rears its head when we start talking about gearing. Take, for example, your hypothetical situation from a couple messages back. Your gearing would actually be 7.68. The ring gear on that diff would be a monster, in order to maintain enough toughness to handle the torque of heavy pulling. So you build it, wrap enough iron around it to enclose it, and then lose a bunch of your offroad capabilities because your diff is now 3 inches lower to the ground than it was before. And who only wants to go 60 mph? You'd also need at least 2 OD gears in the transmission to make the vehicle driveable during rush hour in the city. And since most high HP gas engines have a sharp rise and drop in the torque curve (not all I know), you need a close ratio transmission, of at least 5 gears, to attempt to accelerate a large load at the same rate of speed as a high torque diesel. So we need to stuff a 7 speed trans into the truck. Now we have additional parasitic drag from the weight of the gearbox and all those gears we're spinning. And the list goes on and on. A high torque diesel, with a proper torque curve (I feel the Cummins is a proper torque curve for an engine, rapid peak, and flat right to redline), is easy to build a truck around that can do everything well including accelerate and tow. I know there are dozens of other factors that influence acceleration empty or loaded, however the more torque you have available, at lower RPMs, the less trouble you have to accelerate. I think our little hypothetical situation may have confused you a bit, so lets get back to the real world for a bit: 2005 Ford V10 - 32 inch tires, direct drive, 4.10 rear axle ratio. At 60 mph, you're going to be revving somewhere around that 2600 RPM mark. A snoop through some of my old dyno sheets shows you're generating about 400lbft of torque. With the 4.10 rear axle ratio, you're putting about 1640 lbft of torque out on the axles. 2005 Dodge Cummins 610 - 32 inch tires, direct drive, 4.10 axle ratio. At 60 mph, I'll be revving right around that 2600 RPM mark as well. No need to snoop through dyno sheets, I know I'm putting out 590 lbft at 2600 RPM. Thats 2419 lbft of torque coming out of the tubes. Empty or loaded, all other forces against acceleration including engine mass, aerodynamics, tire tread, etc etc etc, be darned, that Cummins is going to leave you breathing diesel smoke and will continue to do so until it runs out of RPMs at 3500 (at 3500 RPM, the Cummins is still kicking out more torque than the V10). Egads, my fingers are tired :lol: Rod [/QUOTE]
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