Menu
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New profile posts
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Forums
Cattle Boards
Trucks, Tractors & Machinery
Diesel Trucks
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Help Support CattleToday:
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DiamondSCattleCo" data-source="post: 154896" data-attributes="member: 2862"><p>You have to be a little careful on the BTU arguement, as the EPA appears to be trying its steady best to kill diesel fuel economy and/or diesels all together. In order to meet particulate emissions standards, diesels are being forced to inject their fuel later in the injection cycle, at an inefficient point. </p><p></p><p>I'll use the 05 Cummins as an example as its the simplest system: As the piston reaches TDC (top dead centre), a small shot of fuel is injected to being the combustion process, as the piston reaches TDC, the full shot is injected and injection continues as the piston starts moving down. This is an example of retarded timing. Then, a "clean up" shot of fuel is injected, well past TDC, to finish burning any hard to burn contaminates. About 60% of your fuel is being injected _after_ TDC, which is inefficient, and we lose the enhance BTUs of the diesel.</p><p></p><p>Now, you advance the timing, even 20 degrees, suddenly we get a 4 mpg boost in economy (empty), another 40 HP or so, but the tree huggers don't love you no more <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p>Since 1988, I've owned a new diesel or gas engine pickup truck every year (except 03/04 when I kept my truck for 2 years). On the diesel front, HP/torque has been going up, while economy is dropping. On the Cummins front, the best year for economy was 1998, with most 98s getting an _easy_ 22mpg, when even close to properly tuned and I let many out of the shop getting 24 mpg when perfectly tuned. With the introduction of the new common rail systems on the Cummins, economy went downhill, first in 03 with the 2 shot system, and then further downhill in 04.5 with the 3 shot system. Now empty cruising, a well tuned truck will often only see 18 mpg. However, with the addition of a $500 timing box, you can quickly get back up to 21-22 mpg.</p><p></p><p>Gas engines don't appear to be suffering quite as much as diesels, but their economy is going down. HP has been going up as well, but torque hasn't really been moving all that much, with the HP getting stuffed into the higher RPM range of the powerband. I have yet to see a well tuned V10 (either Ford or Dodge) that gets better than 18 mpg empty, and most are sitting at 15-16 mpg. The Hemis and Chev/Ford V8s are as bad, or worse. And forget about towing economy.</p><p></p><p>And pulling weights? Just compare the torque numbers. They don't lie. Truck for truck, if all you were to do was swap V8, V10, or diesel, the diesel would pull the butt off either gas engine in a heartbeat. There is a reason why gas engines aren't used in over the road tractors.</p><p></p><p>Regionally, resale will vary, but in my area, gas engined pickups are very difficult to sell. A 2 year old V8 gasser will be worth $12K less than purchase. A 2 year old diesel will lose $4K at the worst (my last trade, my 03, I received $2K less than purchase price). That enhanced trade in value quickly makes up for any increased price. Keeping your truck for 10 years or longer? I've been looking for a 98 diesel, and the cheapest I could find was $22K. This is a truck that was only $33K new. Gas engine 98s are selling for < $10K.</p><p></p><p>Rod</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DiamondSCattleCo, post: 154896, member: 2862"] You have to be a little careful on the BTU arguement, as the EPA appears to be trying its steady best to kill diesel fuel economy and/or diesels all together. In order to meet particulate emissions standards, diesels are being forced to inject their fuel later in the injection cycle, at an inefficient point. I'll use the 05 Cummins as an example as its the simplest system: As the piston reaches TDC (top dead centre), a small shot of fuel is injected to being the combustion process, as the piston reaches TDC, the full shot is injected and injection continues as the piston starts moving down. This is an example of retarded timing. Then, a "clean up" shot of fuel is injected, well past TDC, to finish burning any hard to burn contaminates. About 60% of your fuel is being injected _after_ TDC, which is inefficient, and we lose the enhance BTUs of the diesel. Now, you advance the timing, even 20 degrees, suddenly we get a 4 mpg boost in economy (empty), another 40 HP or so, but the tree huggers don't love you no more :( Since 1988, I've owned a new diesel or gas engine pickup truck every year (except 03/04 when I kept my truck for 2 years). On the diesel front, HP/torque has been going up, while economy is dropping. On the Cummins front, the best year for economy was 1998, with most 98s getting an _easy_ 22mpg, when even close to properly tuned and I let many out of the shop getting 24 mpg when perfectly tuned. With the introduction of the new common rail systems on the Cummins, economy went downhill, first in 03 with the 2 shot system, and then further downhill in 04.5 with the 3 shot system. Now empty cruising, a well tuned truck will often only see 18 mpg. However, with the addition of a $500 timing box, you can quickly get back up to 21-22 mpg. Gas engines don't appear to be suffering quite as much as diesels, but their economy is going down. HP has been going up as well, but torque hasn't really been moving all that much, with the HP getting stuffed into the higher RPM range of the powerband. I have yet to see a well tuned V10 (either Ford or Dodge) that gets better than 18 mpg empty, and most are sitting at 15-16 mpg. The Hemis and Chev/Ford V8s are as bad, or worse. And forget about towing economy. And pulling weights? Just compare the torque numbers. They don't lie. Truck for truck, if all you were to do was swap V8, V10, or diesel, the diesel would pull the butt off either gas engine in a heartbeat. There is a reason why gas engines aren't used in over the road tractors. Regionally, resale will vary, but in my area, gas engined pickups are very difficult to sell. A 2 year old V8 gasser will be worth $12K less than purchase. A 2 year old diesel will lose $4K at the worst (my last trade, my 03, I received $2K less than purchase price). That enhanced trade in value quickly makes up for any increased price. Keeping your truck for 10 years or longer? I've been looking for a 98 diesel, and the cheapest I could find was $22K. This is a truck that was only $33K new. Gas engine 98s are selling for < $10K. Rod [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Cattle Boards
Trucks, Tractors & Machinery
Diesel Trucks
Top