clampitt

[rafter fp]

did you show many cutters in the sixtys, if so what is your oppinion on cutter bill and that faimilyline, and by the way its nice to read somthing from someone that is not such a gunsel
I hang around this board and laugh my a!! off at all of the fruit cakes. by the way do you know many traniers in the clay, and wichita county texas area. thanks

 

[MillIronQH]

IMO... Cutter Bill was over rated to the max and his rep was store bought. Matlock Rose summed it up real well when he said "Give me a decent horse and enough money and I can make him a world champion." Well everyone knows now where that money came from.Z

 

[clampitt]

In the 60's I lived at Brownwood Tx.Thats where I graduated from high school,69.Thats when I worked at Shorty Russells.I went to Tarleton and worked for John Burrus And stayed on there for a while.My family had a business in Wichita Falls and I stayed in Stephenville then moved to Wichita.I lived next to Jim Lee and Bill had the old Hardy Gage place leased then.I rode one for a friend near Blue Grove and showed her to him one really cold day at Bill's.He asked if I had trained cutters before I said no this is my first one.Do you break colts and I did he said take that one and that one hime with you thats where it all started.I already was riding a few for Jim he was my next door neighbor so to speak.All the close up Cutter Bills I ever rode were hard and tuff,and not real cowy.Sonny Perry rode him for Rex Caubel,But now the blood is so thin they may be alright.Jim and Bill knew him first hand the horse and Sonny.And he was a pretty mean stud from what they said.Sonny rode Seniour George as well he as a really bad stud.Both would get you if you did not be carefull.Here is what I was told Sonny would say about Cutter Bill.Cutter Bill never saw a cow and never will.It was all mechanics by him and believe me they can do more on that deal than you can imigine Freeman can put moves on one that they don't come with.Jim died this year.I know David Gage,Pete Trout,Leo Huff is dead,the McCalips,I rode some for George Adams and we went to Lex Grahams some not much,Kelly Graham is his son.Dick Gaines just met him once.I still had roping and barrel horses as well so I still went to the rodeo.I never wanted to show cutters.I wanted to learn.Cutters and barrel horses have more in common than most think.And riding training cutting horses help me with more than I could ever think just being a better horseman.It relates to all cattle events.I wanted to work for myself and I knew I could never have the money to cut cattle and compete with the big money but I can out run em in the barrel race and had some nice calf horses.I live in Ok. now my wife is from Comanche and we have a place near Loco.When I moved here I worked for Jr.Garrison a couple of years.He is a master with a calf horse.I cleaned up cattle for 15 years that will wear ya out.I have started back riding for the public We have a stud and some mares we raise and run ours as well as a few customer horses I don't ride many we still have cattle and I limit the outside ones to 4 that way they get rode and I do a better job.I don't have to depend on one sourse of income that way.When they leave here they ride.and I feed em as well.This is probably more than you asked for,I couldn't pass up the chance to do a little advertising.I know one thing though I have good friend in Wichita still.When Bill hired me it made all the local cutter types mad he told me and just laughted.Ronny is a bronc rider and ropes he don't know nothing about a cutting horse.And they would drive by. Bills place was on the rode 369FM, Gage place,slow down and look.I kinda figured Bill knew what he was doing and so did Jim.I probably use what I got from them more than anyone else on every horse.Where are you from.Thanks for asking.Ronny

 

[clampitt]

Thats basicly what I said isn't it.Rex had a lot of political pull and Sonny was tuff eneough to get it done.And Matlocks money came from a lot of hard work and knowledge.He is right about the horse deal though.He may have gotten some from Carol when they divorced I'm sure he did.Matlock was a world champion before they married and trained horses for every event.Matlock,Jim,Buster,Shorty Freeman,Gail Borland,Shorty Russell.Leo all those in that generation were real cowboys ranch raised and had a first hand knowledge of working cattle and handling horses.They had a work ethic if you don't work, you don't eat.They had lived through a depression and a world war.Like I said trying to be nice about it Cutter Bill was a bronc and never gentle.They bred some of his daughters to Doc Bar studs and some won and some didn't.But they took a lot of riding.Most of the time when you were told this is out of a Cutter Bill,or Seniour George mare you better be carefull.But like I said I rode ones that were out of daughters of both and they were a hand full.Jim bought two full sisters to George and Cutter Bill after they were world champions and never did get them to where he could show them,he said couldn't get them broke they were almost as mean as their daddy.Oh and rafter fp I see people on here wanting some help with a horse.True some have a little more and some less experience with a horse but they wouldn't be asking if they knew what to do.Thats why they came here.And from what I know everybody starts out at the same place, O, knowledge.

 

[MillIronQH]

Lord... I hadn't thought about old Hardy L. in years. I'd bet you could find your way back to the Velvet Barn or the Jack Frost Ranch House. I started a bunch of colts for Faye Bridges when I was in high school.

One of the real high points in my life was when I was foreman for an outfitter in Arizona. I was setting in the office when the news came on the radio and said they had busted ole Rex as the "King of the Texas Marijuana Mafia." I always wondered when he dropped that cigar box.Z

 

[Alice]

In the 60's I lived at Brownwood Tx.Thats where I graduated from high school,69.Thats when I worked at Shorty Russells.I went to Tarleton and worked for John Burrus And stayed on there for a while.My family had a business in Wichita Falls and I stayed in Stephenville then moved to Wichita.I lived next to Jim Lee and Bill had the old Hardy Gage place leased then.I rode one for a friend near Blue Grove and showed her to him one really cold day at Bill's.He asked if I had trained cutters before I said no this is my first one.Do you break colts and I did he said take that one and that one hime with you thats where it all started.I already was riding a few for Jim he was my next door neighbor so to speak.All the close up Cutter Bills I ever rode were hard and tuff,and not real cowy.Sonny Perry rode him for Rex Caubel,But now the blood is so thin they may be alright.Jim and Bill knew him first hand the horse and Sonny.And he was a pretty mean stud from what they said.Sonny rode Seniour George as well he as a really bad stud.Both would get you if you did not be carefull.Here is what I was told Sonny would say about Cutter Bill.Cutter Bill never saw a cow and never will.It was all mechanics by him and believe me they can do more on that deal than you can imigine Freeman can put moves on one that they don't come with.Jim died this year.I know David Gage,Pete Trout,Leo Huff is dead,the McCalips,I rode some for George Adams and we went to Lex Grahams some not much,Kelly Graham is his son.Dick Gaines just met him once.I still had roping and barrel horses as well so I still went to the rodeo.I never wanted to show cutters.I wanted to learn.Cutters and barrel horses have more in common than most think.And riding training cutting horses help me with more than I could ever think just being a better horseman.It relates to all cattle events.I wanted to work for myself and I knew I could never have the money to cut cattle and compete with the big money but I can out run em in the barrel race and had some nice calf horses.I live in Ok. now my wife is from Comanche and we have a place near Loco.When I moved here I worked for Jr.Garrison a couple of years.He is a master with a calf horse.I cleaned up cattle for 15 years that will wear ya out.I have started back riding for the public We have a stud and some mares we raise and run ours as well as a few customer horses I don't ride many we still have cattle and I limit the outside ones to 4 that way they get rode and I do a better job.I don't have to depend on one sourse of income that way.When they leave here they ride.and I feed em as well.This is probably more than you asked for,I couldn't pass up the chance to do a little advertising.I know one thing though I have good friend in Wichita still.When Bill hired me it made all the local cutter types mad he told me and just laughted.Ronny is a bronc rider and ropes he don't know nothing about a cutting horse.And they would drive by. Bills place was on the rode 369FM, Gage place,slow down and look.I kinda figured Bill knew what he was doing and so did Jim.I probably use what I got from them more than anyone else on every horse.Where are you from.Thanks for asking.Ronny

I graduated from Stephenville High School in 1969. Talk about grudge matches in football. I was on the drill team and can remember our bus having to be escorted out of Brownwood by the police. Doesn't have a dang thing to do with this thread...

Alice

 

[clampitt]

Oh heavens,it was,They thought Gordon Woods was a god in Brownwood.I was not from there we moved there from Houston.Small world isn't it.

 

[Alice]

Oh heavens,it was,They thought Gordon Woods was a god in Brownwood.I was not from there we moved there from Houston.Small world isn't it.

It is indeed a small world. I tried and tried to think of Gordon Woods name...thanks for putting that to rest for me. He was one Billy Bada$$ coach. I don't think we won 1 game in the four years in was in high school.

Alice

 

[Alan]

Alice, can you please post a pic of you in drill team from 1969? No wait you may want one of my from my wrestling days in 1975. Never mind

Alan

 

[Alice]

Alice, can you please post a pic of you in drill team from 1969? No wait you may want one of my from my wrestling days in 1975. Never mind

Alan

Alan, if I could find it, I'd post it.

Alice

 

[rafter fp]

thanks for the info , did you know a man named lace barry in bellevue Tx, he rode a cutter son, Cutters Major, and showed him quite a bit, i came to know mr barry when i moved to midway about 5 years ago from northern nevada. He still had a grandson of cutter bill out of a daughter of mr diamond dude.
To say the least i was very impressed with the stud , he has an outstanding mind and exceptional bone and size for a cutting horse. Unfourtunatly Mr Barry passed this summer and ill miss his stories of the old days and the old time horses in this area, those old timers should be considered a national treasure i love to here the TRUTH about the old lines. I could sit and listen to those stories forever so i appreciate your time and experience greatly. And by the way, i wont appolagize for my gunsel comments, I infact was born with more knowledge about cattle and horses than most people can ever dream of aquiring. I was raised on a ranch with over amillion acres of leased and deeded land, i was trotting a 40 mile circle by the time i was 10 and have doctered branded and started more cattle and horses than most people have ever even seen. Im A
COWBOY and take that title as serious as life and death, Thats how i was raised and thats how i live. The word cowboy is the most basterdized term in the english language and i make no quims about defending its true meaning. Is it a fault? You bet ! I take pride in the knowledge learned and EARNED from a life time in the saddle and am arrogant to the core about it. So for the dudes out there that might be offended Sorry but it take a lot to earn this ol punchers respect.

 

[clampitt]

What are you doing now.Still punchin cows.I knew who Mr.Barry was,I didn't know him personaly.

 

[rafter fp]

Im building saddles and dayworking a little, trying to get used to these short ropes and swellforks. Its intresting to get to see how different the stockhandling and gear is down here. The first time i rode into the brandin trap with a 90 ft gut line i got looked at like i was from mars, but i sure enjoy watchin the waddies work ther slack, and ill say somthin else ther is some damn fine horse flesh down here

 

[MillIronQH]

fp If you want to try real culture shock get down here in the brush country of south Texas. They all ride full double rigged team ropers with the horn wrapped and a 35 foot telephone cable tied hard and fast. You get to see some beautimous wrecks. I won't get into the roper low heeled boots and the little roper, made in Korea, spurs they tie on so low they drag the ground.

Since you're building saddles I wish I could get you a picture of the Slade saddle I had built a few years ago. Old Will Paradeau has built a rigging that pretty much eliminates the need for a back cinch. It's kind of a cross between the Montana drop plate and the early Visalia dropped rigging set at 3/4+ and hanging lower. Makes the pull front and back pretty even.

You ever work with any of those Meskin cowboys that come up out of Sonora and Chihuahua? I used to think I was a fair ropehand til I got around them and their 60-80' Maguay ropes. They claim that Maguay ropes are the fastest ropes in the world. I believe them. And those boys could rope a critter THRU a mesquite tree. Sometimes you could swear you could see the smoke coming off the saddle horn.Z

 

[ALACOWMAN]

thanks for the info , did you know a man named lace barry in bellevue Tx, he rode a cutter son, Cutters Major, and showed him quite a bit, i came to know mr barry when i moved to midway about 5 years ago from northern nevada. He still had a grandson of cutter bill out of a daughter of mr diamond dude.
To say the least i was very impressed with the stud , he has an outstanding mind and exceptional bone and size for a cutting horse. Unfourtunatly Mr Barry passed this summer and ill miss his stories of the old days and the old time horses in this area, those old timers should be considered a national treasure i love to here the TRUTH about the old lines. I could sit and listen to those stories forever so i appreciate your time and experience greatly. And by the way, i wont appolagize for my gunsel comments, I infact was born with more knowledge about cattle and horses than most people can ever dream of aquiring. I was raised on a ranch with over amillion acres of leased and deeded land, i was trotting a 40 mile circle by the time i was 10 and have doctered branded and started more cattle and horses than most people have ever even seen. Im A
COWBOY and take that title as serious as life and death, Thats how i was raised and thats how i live. The word cowboy is the most basterdized term in the english language and i make no quims about defending its true meaning. Is it a fault? You bet ! I take pride in the knowledge learned and EARNED from a life time in the saddle and am arrogant to the core about it. So for the dudes out there that might be offended Sorry but it take a lot to earn this ol punchers respect.

the funny thing about respect is finding someone that gives a running dam if you respect them are not, ive have confidence with my ablilty horseback and with a rope. even more with cattle. the only respect i care about is my own. he!! your respect aint paid no bills at my place that ive seen. any farmboy can punch cattle. most REAL cowboys aint arrogant anyway and their more than willing to help and you were born with all that knowledge maybe you could share some . so if you can talk the talk ,and by the way anyone can spin yarn. respect comes from seeing you perform horseback. I do agree with you on the term cowboy though .but you didnt write the book on it

 

[MillIronQH]

the funny thing about respect is finding someone that gives a running dam if you respect them are not, ive have confidence with my ablilty horseback and with a rope. even more with cattle. the only respect i care about is my own. he!! your respect aint paid no bills at my place that ive seen. any farmboy can punch cattle. most REAL cowboys aint arrogant anyway and their more than willing to help and you were born with all that knowledge maybe you could share some . so if you can talk the talk ,and by the way anyone can spin yarn. respect comes from seeing you perform horseback. I do agree with you on the term cowboy though .but you didnt write the book on it

Amen and Amen... Arena cowboy arrogance never ceases to amaze me. Neither does their ability to ignore or evade direct comments or questions.

Starting at the top; Clampitt

Thats basicly what I said isn't it.Rex had a lot of political pull and Sonny was tuff eneough to get it done.

How do you figure you just said it if I was the first one to post on the subject and you came in behind me.

You brought up the name Hardy Gage. Nobody and I mean nobody that had any thing to do with the cow business in Wichita or the surounding counties ever refered to him or his outfit like that. It was always HARDY L. GAGE. Even his wife called him Hardy L.

I ask you about the Velvet Barn and the Jack Frost Ranchhouse and gave my bonifides about them by having started young horses for Faye Bridges who owned the VB and was in the 50s, 60s and into the 70s a power in the north Texas QH world. Were you just being rude or don't you have a clue? Jack Frost in addition to owning the dance hall had good horses and ran about 800 mama cows. I know I grew up, ran with and graduated from high school with his son, Larry. Larry was the reason we got to have so many Beer parties on Horseshoe Lake down behind the hall.

Even as an arena cowboy if you want to impress me show me the Gold Buckles.

FP You make a big issue about being a cowboy. In coming up on 61 years I've never heard a REAL cowboy make such and issue about it. I've also never known a REAL cowboy to ignore a direct reponse to a question they had ask. Especially when it was the first response. You talk about a 90' GUT LINE by which I assume you're talking about a rawhide rieta. There's not one in one thousand Gringos Ever knew how to use one. And if you admire how GB cowboys worked their dallies you ain't one of them. Even the real Vaqueros out of Mexico don't use them anymore except for show or the Charritos rodeos.

Just FYI.. When I was a pup my old man's best friends included JB French, Tex Hilner and Pine Johnson. At 10-12 years old one of the high points in my month was going to visit Mr. Johnson. It meant that I got to sit on Poco Bueno. In later years I had the honor to ride both Robin Reed and Poco Light in their last public perfomances at the National Western. So I've spent a little time in the arena. But I've also spent 12-14 hour days in tuff country and had and old Meskin cowboy ride up and stick out his hand and say "Su est bueno vaquero". Can either of you say that?Z

Si. Mi est vaquero.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the funny thing about respect is finding someone that gives a running dam if you respect them are not, ive have confidence with my ablilty horseback and with a rope. even more with cattle. the only respect i care about is my own. he!! your respect aint paid no bills at my place that ive seen. any farmboy can punch cattle. most REAL cowboys aint arrogant anyway and their more than willing to help and you were born with all that knowledge maybe you could share some . so if you can talk the talk ,and by the way anyone can spin yarn. respect comes from seeing you perform horseback. I do agree with you on the term cowboy though .but you didnt write the book on it

Amen and Amen... Arena cowboy arrogance never ceases to amaze me. Neither does their ability to ignore or evade direct comments or questions.

Starting at the top;

Thats basicly what I said isn't it.Rex had a lot of political pull and Sonny was tuff eneough to get it done.

folks you can paint all the glorified pictures in my head you want. but till i see you horse back dont even try to impress me. some of you may be better a cowboy than me. but do i really give a dam? he.. he.. he.. ill have to say i dont .. i really dont ;-) now if money were on the line the thats a nother storey. dayworker nightworker. i am both. im president and c.e.o cowboy and flunky of my outfit so go gain someone else respect

 

[clampitt]

Mr.Milliron,I didn't move to Wichita till the 80's and I never said I knew Hardy L.I do know David Gage very well.I said Bill had the Gage place leased which he did.I heard of the Velvet Barn but don't give a rip about it.I didn't spend my time at the bar.Was the Jack Frost place on the Seymour Hwy.if so Ray Davis took my by there once you coud tell at one time it was a nice outfit.As far as the ignoring you deal goes I don't live on here I have horses to ride and cattle to feed.I bow to the key board punchers on cattletoday.Ya'll keep em informed.

 

[rafter fp]

milliron QH
First off I ASKED Clampitt a question about a faimly of horses,
I need not your goofy comments about cowboys and what you Leppies think they are. Secondly I could not care less what any one thinks of my attitude twords the proffesion or if some COW FARMER ( what the hell is that anyway ) respects my veiwpoint. and What question did i ignor ? what you dont know about the Great Basin would fill up a book or two . I infact do rope with a reata and have mastered the art of Dar la vuelta, i grew up in the ION and have lived there my whole life until recently, and can assure you we do use the reata. my journey to Texas is temp. When i said i liked to watch these texas punchers work there slack i WAS talking about being tied off. you know not what you speek of, The horse cultures of the mexican vaquero and the Californio are vastly differnt, The texans treated the Mexican Vaquero like second class slaves and the culture has evolved from that to what you have down here today. The Calafornio was on the other hand revered and admired for his skill pride in his proffesion and mindset towords tradition they did not take to outsiders because most lacked the respect and discipline it took to master the skills envolved in the trade. I quess i should have shot a PM to clampitt to get his oppinion on Cutter Bill, Although i see now the reason that
some of the great cow horses were shuned, by the brand name trainers and breeders, so before i go ill try to stir it up again, What are your oppinions about Mr Gunsmoke.
This is fun