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<blockquote data-quote="dun" data-source="post: 31379" data-attributes="member: 34"><p>This is from another board. Although it is directed at dairy bulls, the majority of what she says also applies to ANY bull</p><p></p><p>dun</p><p></p><p>OK, first- we ARE talking about a dairy bull here, right?</p><p></p><p>If so, and if you don't have a LOT of experience with animals, specifically</p><p>breeding animals, please DO NOT keep a bull.</p><p></p><p>Actually, I suppose it's possible a novice would be slightly safer than</p><p>someone who has gotten jaded and used to having a bull around, but they can</p><p>NOT be trusted. You have to ALWAYS be on your guard, never turning your</p><p>back for a second. The old timers who kept herd bulls (and of course, they</p><p>didn't have any choice) kept them in specially designed bull pens, built of</p><p>at least 2" pipe. They were designed so no one EVER had to go into the pen</p><p>with the bull for routine matters- feeding, watering was done from the</p><p>outside. It was set up so the bull could be herded into an outside</p><p>enclosure and closed out of the pen while someone was cleaning it. And</p><p>people were STILL killed and maimed.</p><p></p><p>These days, too many farmers run a bull or more than one with the cows. In</p><p>our small area, I know personally four farmers- experienced men in their</p><p>50's- who are permanently damaged as a result of a run in with a bull. I</p><p>know of AT LEAST half a dozen others from neighborly gossip who have had</p><p>serious (extended stays in the hospital) injuries from bulls- and these are</p><p>all in the past 2-3 years.</p><p></p><p>I could try to describe the "look" one gets when they start thinking they</p><p>are king of the world. I could try to describe how strong a big bull is (or</p><p>even a small one). You probably wouldn't believe me, and the "look" is</p><p>something you either can read or not.</p><p></p><p>At least three of the men who were hurt said "I knew he was getting nasty,</p><p>but I just wanted to keep him around a few more weeks until the young bull</p><p>started doing more of his job". One told me "that bull never would have</p><p>hurt a fly. I don't know what made him attack me, but it might have been</p><p>the herd dog behind me."</p><p></p><p>I've raised four bulls and used them on the farm over the past 25 years.</p><p>One was kept around until he was a 1700# three year old, and I was the one</p><p>who handled him when we drew semen from him, and I was the one who led him</p><p>onto the truck to ship him for beef. But I didn't trust him for a second</p><p>for the last 18 months.</p><p></p><p>I also started to raise a couple others, which were mean from a few weeks</p><p>old. Not "attack" mean, not at that age, but obviously pushy, all too</p><p>willing to strike at someone with their head and shove you into a wall.</p><p>Only a truly stupid person would have kept them around. I like life too</p><p>much to be that dumb.</p><p></p><p>All you need to do is get between a bull and someplace he wants to be- or a</p><p>cow he considers "his". That will be ALL cows in heat, or even coming into</p><p>heat- long before you see any signs. You MAY get lucky and be able to roll</p><p>or crawl under the fence before he turns you into mush. The guys that</p><p>survived the attacks around here did just that- although crawling 10 feet</p><p>with a dislocated shoulder, crushed pelvis and seven fractured ribs isn't</p><p>something I'd try for fun.</p><p></p><p>It only takes a second's distraction for a bull to get you. It may take a</p><p>couple of years to recover- as much as you are going to recover.</p><p></p><p>What is the advantage of owning a bull? Finding cows in heat? Other cows</p><p>are darn good at that, if they're healthy and on good footing. Experienced</p><p>farmers get awfully good at it, as well. If you don't have the experience</p><p>to see the differences in behavior of a cow coming into heat, you don't</p><p>have enough to see the difference in the eyes of a bull just before he</p><p>tries to kill you.</p><p></p><p>AI, done carefully, will match conception by a bull- or beat it. Most of us</p><p>here know of people who have brought in an entire heifer group at the end</p><p>of summer, only to find them all open- the bull was "shooting blanks".</p><p>Heck, I know one herd- and it was a good herd, run by generally competent</p><p>people- who did that TWICE, two years in a row! I bought a couple of</p><p>springing 4 year old "heifers" from them... Good deal for me, awfully</p><p>expensive for them.</p><p></p><p>With the various protocols for bringing cows into heat, and things like</p><p>Kamar tailhead markers, tailhead paint and the other aids to finding cows</p><p>who are standing, healthy, well nourished cows are NOT hard to get</p><p>pregnant. There may be a rare one who doesn't conceive artificially who</p><p>will stick when run with a bull for her entire heat period, but they are</p><p>just that - rare. We compensate for that by breeding a valuable animal who</p><p>isn't getting pregnant every 12 hours from the first sign of heat until we</p><p>are sure she's completely out of heat. That compensates for the oddball who</p><p>ovulates very early- or very late. Just like using a bull does.</p><p></p><p>If you think you're going to save money using a bull, think again. Aside</p><p>from the possible insane costs of healing from severe injuries, a bull</p><p>isn't cheap to feed. You have to figure the original cost- either</p><p>purchasing a grown animal, or the cost of raising one to breeding age. Then</p><p>add in the cost of feed, and the fact that they are taking the place of a</p><p>cow. You can't count on one bull breeding more than 40 cows, according to</p><p>university research, and that's when they are mature. If you are trying for</p><p>seasonal calving, they can't handle that many. We are breeding as many as 6</p><p>cows a day right now, with our tiny (42 milking cows) seasonal herd. A bull</p><p>could NEVER do that. Quite often they will choose a favorite cow, and only</p><p>breed one out of however many are in heat that day.</p><p></p><p>Murphy's Law being what it is, maybe it's not surprising how many bulls go</p><p>lame right before peak breeding season- or right in the middle!</p><p></p><p>I know that some folks are successful using a bull, but they are</p><p>experienced, have taken into account everything I've said, and they are</p><p>likely not getting full advantage of their milking herd.</p><p></p><p>If you're determined to use a bull, this is the minimum I'd say is</p><p>necessary for health- yours and your herd's:</p><p></p><p>1. start with a healthy bull calf, out of top quality registered stock (so</p><p>you have a clue what is behind him). The dam should be in the top 10% of</p><p>the herd, the sire should be in the very top PTA, or LPI index.</p><p></p><p>2. get him COMPLETELY health tested and certified. For a calf, this means</p><p>blood testing for leukemia, Johnes, bluetongue, brucellosis, TB, and</p><p>possibly others. For a breeding age animal, it also means getting a semen</p><p>test done.</p><p></p><p>3. DO NOT purchase a bull that has been used for breeding on anyone else's</p><p>cows, unless you can get him tested for the various STD's. Pregnancy rates</p><p>stink when the bull is infecting cows with something that causes</p><p>infertility or early abortion!</p><p></p><p>4. Figure out where you are going to keep him, and set up facilities which</p><p>will allow you to handle him safely, and move cows in and out with the</p><p>least risk to everyone involved.</p><p></p><p>5. Get a ring in his nose by 6 months old, and HANDLE HIM with it. Do NOT</p><p>baby him or get him overly comfortable with people fiddling with him. But</p><p>break him to lead and make sure he learns EARLY that your space is not to</p><p>be invaded. It's best to always lead them with a staff, which keeps them</p><p>from crowding you. A poor second is to ALWAYS carry a sharp stick which you</p><p>can use to push them off you.</p><p></p><p>6. Last, be ready to replace him every single year. Some *may* stay</p><p>"gentle" longer... others may not be safe that long. A year is an average,</p><p>and unless you have professional facilities, by the time he's bred cows for</p><p>a year, he'll be over 2 years old and will have outgrown your facilities.</p><p>After that, you'll start compromising, because he'll be harder to handle.</p><p>And soon after THAT, you may be in big trouble.</p><p></p><p>I'm sure you're thinking I'm a spooky woman who is exaggerating. I wish!</p><p>Statistics showed for many years that the purebred dairy bull was the most</p><p>dangerous animal in North American (based on human injuries and deaths).</p><p></p><p>Also, please be aware that OSHA rules state that you can't have anyone</p><p>under the age of 16 (it might be 18) in a barn where a bull is kept. This</p><p>applies to hired help, of course, not family, but it's the law.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dun, post: 31379, member: 34"] This is from another board. Although it is directed at dairy bulls, the majority of what she says also applies to ANY bull dun OK, first- we ARE talking about a dairy bull here, right? If so, and if you don't have a LOT of experience with animals, specifically breeding animals, please DO NOT keep a bull. Actually, I suppose it's possible a novice would be slightly safer than someone who has gotten jaded and used to having a bull around, but they can NOT be trusted. You have to ALWAYS be on your guard, never turning your back for a second. The old timers who kept herd bulls (and of course, they didn't have any choice) kept them in specially designed bull pens, built of at least 2" pipe. They were designed so no one EVER had to go into the pen with the bull for routine matters- feeding, watering was done from the outside. It was set up so the bull could be herded into an outside enclosure and closed out of the pen while someone was cleaning it. And people were STILL killed and maimed. These days, too many farmers run a bull or more than one with the cows. In our small area, I know personally four farmers- experienced men in their 50's- who are permanently damaged as a result of a run in with a bull. I know of AT LEAST half a dozen others from neighborly gossip who have had serious (extended stays in the hospital) injuries from bulls- and these are all in the past 2-3 years. I could try to describe the "look" one gets when they start thinking they are king of the world. I could try to describe how strong a big bull is (or even a small one). You probably wouldn't believe me, and the "look" is something you either can read or not. At least three of the men who were hurt said "I knew he was getting nasty, but I just wanted to keep him around a few more weeks until the young bull started doing more of his job". One told me "that bull never would have hurt a fly. I don't know what made him attack me, but it might have been the herd dog behind me." I've raised four bulls and used them on the farm over the past 25 years. One was kept around until he was a 1700# three year old, and I was the one who handled him when we drew semen from him, and I was the one who led him onto the truck to ship him for beef. But I didn't trust him for a second for the last 18 months. I also started to raise a couple others, which were mean from a few weeks old. Not "attack" mean, not at that age, but obviously pushy, all too willing to strike at someone with their head and shove you into a wall. Only a truly stupid person would have kept them around. I like life too much to be that dumb. All you need to do is get between a bull and someplace he wants to be- or a cow he considers "his". That will be ALL cows in heat, or even coming into heat- long before you see any signs. You MAY get lucky and be able to roll or crawl under the fence before he turns you into mush. The guys that survived the attacks around here did just that- although crawling 10 feet with a dislocated shoulder, crushed pelvis and seven fractured ribs isn't something I'd try for fun. It only takes a second's distraction for a bull to get you. It may take a couple of years to recover- as much as you are going to recover. What is the advantage of owning a bull? Finding cows in heat? Other cows are darn good at that, if they're healthy and on good footing. Experienced farmers get awfully good at it, as well. If you don't have the experience to see the differences in behavior of a cow coming into heat, you don't have enough to see the difference in the eyes of a bull just before he tries to kill you. AI, done carefully, will match conception by a bull- or beat it. Most of us here know of people who have brought in an entire heifer group at the end of summer, only to find them all open- the bull was "shooting blanks". Heck, I know one herd- and it was a good herd, run by generally competent people- who did that TWICE, two years in a row! I bought a couple of springing 4 year old "heifers" from them... Good deal for me, awfully expensive for them. With the various protocols for bringing cows into heat, and things like Kamar tailhead markers, tailhead paint and the other aids to finding cows who are standing, healthy, well nourished cows are NOT hard to get pregnant. There may be a rare one who doesn't conceive artificially who will stick when run with a bull for her entire heat period, but they are just that - rare. We compensate for that by breeding a valuable animal who isn't getting pregnant every 12 hours from the first sign of heat until we are sure she's completely out of heat. That compensates for the oddball who ovulates very early- or very late. Just like using a bull does. If you think you're going to save money using a bull, think again. Aside from the possible insane costs of healing from severe injuries, a bull isn't cheap to feed. You have to figure the original cost- either purchasing a grown animal, or the cost of raising one to breeding age. Then add in the cost of feed, and the fact that they are taking the place of a cow. You can't count on one bull breeding more than 40 cows, according to university research, and that's when they are mature. If you are trying for seasonal calving, they can't handle that many. We are breeding as many as 6 cows a day right now, with our tiny (42 milking cows) seasonal herd. A bull could NEVER do that. Quite often they will choose a favorite cow, and only breed one out of however many are in heat that day. Murphy's Law being what it is, maybe it's not surprising how many bulls go lame right before peak breeding season- or right in the middle! I know that some folks are successful using a bull, but they are experienced, have taken into account everything I've said, and they are likely not getting full advantage of their milking herd. If you're determined to use a bull, this is the minimum I'd say is necessary for health- yours and your herd's: 1. start with a healthy bull calf, out of top quality registered stock (so you have a clue what is behind him). The dam should be in the top 10% of the herd, the sire should be in the very top PTA, or LPI index. 2. get him COMPLETELY health tested and certified. For a calf, this means blood testing for leukemia, Johnes, bluetongue, brucellosis, TB, and possibly others. For a breeding age animal, it also means getting a semen test done. 3. DO NOT purchase a bull that has been used for breeding on anyone else's cows, unless you can get him tested for the various STD's. Pregnancy rates stink when the bull is infecting cows with something that causes infertility or early abortion! 4. Figure out where you are going to keep him, and set up facilities which will allow you to handle him safely, and move cows in and out with the least risk to everyone involved. 5. Get a ring in his nose by 6 months old, and HANDLE HIM with it. Do NOT baby him or get him overly comfortable with people fiddling with him. But break him to lead and make sure he learns EARLY that your space is not to be invaded. It's best to always lead them with a staff, which keeps them from crowding you. A poor second is to ALWAYS carry a sharp stick which you can use to push them off you. 6. Last, be ready to replace him every single year. Some *may* stay "gentle" longer... others may not be safe that long. A year is an average, and unless you have professional facilities, by the time he's bred cows for a year, he'll be over 2 years old and will have outgrown your facilities. After that, you'll start compromising, because he'll be harder to handle. And soon after THAT, you may be in big trouble. I'm sure you're thinking I'm a spooky woman who is exaggerating. I wish! Statistics showed for many years that the purebred dairy bull was the most dangerous animal in North American (based on human injuries and deaths). Also, please be aware that OSHA rules state that you can't have anyone under the age of 16 (it might be 18) in a barn where a bull is kept. This applies to hired help, of course, not family, but it's the law. [/QUOTE]
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