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<blockquote data-quote="Ebenezer" data-source="post: 1807808" data-attributes="member: 24565"><p><a href="https://rumdeer.bio.ed.ac.uk/" target="_blank">closed population of red deer</a></p><p></p><p><a href="https://soaysheep.bio.ed.ac.uk/" target="_blank">closed population of soay sheep</a></p><p></p><p>Those are some good studies. If you want cattle studies, then there is Line 1, Shoshone X strain, Holsteins, dogs, horses...</p><p></p><p>It would take a lot of research to prove broad statements of "And for some reason is not popular in nature." Or that all dominate bull elk die each winter. 1000s of species have gone extinct. Could "natural inbreeding" have been "natural" in some of those cases or was "natural inbreeding" the reason that there are survival species? Studies, again, of wild populations of animals can tell us "stuff" but it does not mean that anyone here is saying to make the family tree of a herd or flock to look like a beanpole. </p><p></p><p>I use a bull AI from about 1967 that had his sire misidentified when he was registered. I will not tell which bull to keep down the backlash but it was reported and the association told the guy to shut up because it would show that the records (back then) were faulty. His pedigree is such that the sire is also the grandsire 2X on the dam's side. A great bull to use in that line of cattle here - no problem. </p><p></p><p>If you knew what I do, I roll through the use of a limited # of old bulls and always use sons from various cows. The #1 thing in linebreeding is the question to always ask "What is the purpose of the linebreeding attempt?" If it is just to linebreed, then quit right there. If it is to test, stabilize, segregate or whatever then you can try and see what happens. I am not dumb and will tell you that with tight inbreeding and a limited genepool, such as the sire/daughter or son/mother example that is always waved in the face of all who discuss linebreeding, I expect 15% success. So I do not willy nilly linebreed. </p><p></p><p>But I already know that I will do a sire daughter mating of a particular bull that is very limited when I can and until then I will try him as grandsire/grandaughter as soon as I can. I also know that he has been bred sire/daughter in the past with good results. </p><p></p><p>I have not studied up on bees in a long time. But I do keep up with the cattle and sheep world a bit closer. We have a closed flock of registered sheep that has been closed since 2009. They are bred in 6 different lines even though the ancestry of all is a small group. So, I linebreed but do it wisely. Not the constant sire/daughter and son/mother example that anti-linebreeders always throw in to scuttle the ship.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ebenezer, post: 1807808, member: 24565"] [URL='https://rumdeer.bio.ed.ac.uk/']closed population of red deer[/URL] [URL='https://soaysheep.bio.ed.ac.uk/']closed population of soay sheep[/URL] Those are some good studies. If you want cattle studies, then there is Line 1, Shoshone X strain, Holsteins, dogs, horses... It would take a lot of research to prove broad statements of "And for some reason is not popular in nature." Or that all dominate bull elk die each winter. 1000s of species have gone extinct. Could "natural inbreeding" have been "natural" in some of those cases or was "natural inbreeding" the reason that there are survival species? Studies, again, of wild populations of animals can tell us "stuff" but it does not mean that anyone here is saying to make the family tree of a herd or flock to look like a beanpole. I use a bull AI from about 1967 that had his sire misidentified when he was registered. I will not tell which bull to keep down the backlash but it was reported and the association told the guy to shut up because it would show that the records (back then) were faulty. His pedigree is such that the sire is also the grandsire 2X on the dam's side. A great bull to use in that line of cattle here - no problem. If you knew what I do, I roll through the use of a limited # of old bulls and always use sons from various cows. The #1 thing in linebreeding is the question to always ask "What is the purpose of the linebreeding attempt?" If it is just to linebreed, then quit right there. If it is to test, stabilize, segregate or whatever then you can try and see what happens. I am not dumb and will tell you that with tight inbreeding and a limited genepool, such as the sire/daughter or son/mother example that is always waved in the face of all who discuss linebreeding, I expect 15% success. So I do not willy nilly linebreed. But I already know that I will do a sire daughter mating of a particular bull that is very limited when I can and until then I will try him as grandsire/grandaughter as soon as I can. I also know that he has been bred sire/daughter in the past with good results. I have not studied up on bees in a long time. But I do keep up with the cattle and sheep world a bit closer. We have a closed flock of registered sheep that has been closed since 2009. They are bred in 6 different lines even though the ancestry of all is a small group. So, I linebreed but do it wisely. Not the constant sire/daughter and son/mother example that anti-linebreeders always throw in to scuttle the ship. [/QUOTE]
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