Bull Castration and a few other questions...

[Schrute]

My family started a small catlle farm about 3 yrs ago... we just recently had our first bull calves and I have a few questions for you experienced folks.
- Band castration; everything I've read said you need to do this in the first 10 days... but we have 1 bull calf that's approx. 3 weeks old, is it too late to use a band?
- Ear Tagging; are there any tricks of the trade in doing this or is it as simple as the instructions make it look?
- Calf table (tilt table); we don't currently have a tilt table, what's the best method for holding (man-handling) a calf down for castration? Or, do I HAVE to have a tilt table?

Thank you in advance for your time...

 

[milkmaid]

1) nope, not too late. I don't usually band until they're a month old. Large banders are made for calves up to 600lbs.
2) yep, it's not that hard; it was a little stressful for me the first few times I did it, but it's pretty routine now. Just follow the instructions.
3) You don't have or use a tilt-table. Don't even have to throw them down... I prefer not to put them down, because it's harder to get both testicles inside the band when gravity is working against you. FYI, make certain you count to two. I prefer to get them in a corner and band them while they're standing (make sure you don't get kicked).

 

[dun]

What milkmaid said, plus if you can get someone to hold his tail straight up over his back there is less likelyhood of him kicking or laying down

dun

 

[msscamp]

- Band castration; everything I've read said you need to do this in the first 10 days... but we have 1 bull calf that's approx. 3 weeks old, is it too late to use a band?

No. We routinely banded our bull calves at a month or so of age. We've also banded 9-12 month old bulls that didn't make the cut. The older ones need a tetanus shot and, although it wouldn't hurt with the younger ones, we didn't give tetanus to anything younger than roughly 2 months old.

- Ear Tagging; are there any tricks of the trade in doing this or is it as simple as the instructions make it look?

No, it isn't as simple as it looks. The calves tend to try to toss their heads during tagging, and they can easily rip their ear out. Placement also comes into play as they mature - too far out, and the tag is easier to rip out or lose. Too far in towards the head and you often can't read it because of the hair in the ears.


- Calf table (tilt table); we don't currently have a tilt table, what's the best method for holding (man-handling) a calf down for castration? Or, do I HAVE to have a tilt table?

...

No, you don't need a tilt table. Since we banded at branding, the calves were wrassled, banded, and branded at the same time. One person on head, one on the rear, and one banding. The older ones were banded in the chute.

 

[milkmaid]

- Ear Tagging; are there any tricks of the trade in doing this or is it as simple as the instructions make it look?

No, it isn't as simple as it looks. The calves tend to try to toss their heads during tagging, and they can easily rip their ear out. Placement also comes into play as they mature - too far out, and the tag is easier to rip out or lose. Too far in towards the head and you often can't read it because of the hair in the ears.

:nod: That's true... I guess I should say, IF the calf's head is restrained then it is as just about as simple as the instructions make it look. :lol: I usually straddle them or back them in a corner if they're small enough, and as long as it's done fast the tag is often in before the calf realizes what happened. Now, I've been putting fly tags in last couple days on my yearlings, and that is... exciting ...without a chute. :lol2:

 

[hillsdown]

[Milkmaid said/quote]

:nod: That's true... I guess I should say, IF the calf's head is restrained then it is as just about as simple as the instructions make it look. :lol: I usually straddle them or back them in a corner if they're small enough, and as long as it's done fast the tag is often in before the calf realizes what happened. Now, I've been putting fly tags in last couple days on my yearlings, and that is... exciting ...without a chute. :lol2:[/quote]

Please elaborate as that sounds like there is a very entertaining story behind this.

 

[milkmaid]

Well, so far I have one broken watch from getting my wrist smashed.

My makeshift chute (fence and gate) works fine for vaccinating, but tagging calves that have been done before and know what's coming is a whole 'nuther story. :lol:

 

[*Cowgirl*]

What milkmaid said, plus if you can get someone to hold his tail straight up over his back there is less likelyhood of him kicking or laying down

dun

This is what we do.
Tail over back - 1 - 2 - band - done

 

[msscamp]

Knife cutting is the best way to insure to that you dont have stag and wind up with a bunch of inbred cattle running around.

I disagree. If one knows how to count to two - before and after releasing the band - and uses the proper banding equipment, there is no reason for banding to result in a stag.

 

[novatech]

We don't bother anymore. There is not enough price difference to justify the risk.
Inbreeding is not a posability. I would certainly think that one would wean them way before they are ready to breed. When we wean we usually get them out of the pasture where there mom is. Mostly to the sale barn.

 

[Schrute]

We don't bother anymore. There is not enough price difference to justify the risk.
Inbreeding is not a posability. I would certainly think that one would wean them way before they are ready to breed. When we wean we usually get them out of the pasture where there mom is. Mostly to the sale barn.

Thanks for your response... but I'm not sure I follow you when you say "you don't bother anymore, there's not enough price difference...."
I'm very new to this, never selling cattle before. Are you saying that the price difference between a bull and a steer is minimal and certainly not worth the risk (and effort) in castration?

Thanks!

 

[msscamp]

We don't bother anymore. There is not enough price difference to justify the risk.
Inbreeding is not a posability. I would certainly think that one would wean them way before they are ready to breed. When we wean we usually get them out of the pasture where there mom is. Mostly to the sale barn.

Are you saying that the price difference between a bull and a steer is minimal and certainly not worth the risk (and effort) in castration?

Thanks!

That is going to vary from area to area. Around here you will get docked - hard - for weaning bulls vs steers. You will want to do your research carefully before you decide to not castrate.

 

[novatech]

We don't bother anymore. There is not enough price difference to justify the risk.
Inbreeding is not a posability. I would certainly think that one would wean them way before they are ready to breed. When we wean we usually get them out of the pasture where there mom is. Mostly to the sale barn.

Are you saying that the price difference between a bull and a steer is minimal and certainly not worth the risk (and effort) in castration?

Thanks!

That is going to vary from area to area. Around here you will get docked - hard - for weaning bulls vs steers. You will want to do your research carefully before you decide to not castrate.

I will have to agree. Go to the sale barn or ask some cattlemen in you area. Then deside for yourself.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

What most have said...

1) No worries -- you can band at day 1, or when you vaccinate, etc.
2) Ear tagging -- properly restrain the head and you're fine... we tag the right ear for bull calves, left ear for heifers (for ease of identification on future sorting)
3) Calf tilt table definitely not required but when you have a lot to do is helpful... look up "flanking a calf" or if they're young enough you can "squeeze" them between a gate and panel or the like

We tag and give a few shots the 1st day on the ground and do this out in the pasture with very little difficulty -- done in under a minute.

Like I said - no worries, get some assistance on the first few so you know what to look for, what to feel for, etc. and you'll do just fine.

 

[Beefy]

around here bull versus steer depends on how big the calf is. anything 500 or more will get docked pretty well for being a bull. less than that and you are normally ok.

 

[dun]

Unrelated to cattle, but, I've been attending a goodly number of meat goat auctions lately. I found it interesting that from about 40 lbs to 75 lbs there is no difference between bucks, weathers or does in price. They even run them in the ring at the same time and sell them as a group. Took me a while to figure out what was going on with the mixed gender groups.

dun

 

[Brute 23]

At what age do you have to worry about a young bull breading a female?

 

[mdmdogs3]

At what age do you have to worry about a young bull breading a female?

depends on your breed - some breeds mature much earlier than others

 

[msscamp]

At what age do you have to worry about a young bull breading a female?

I don't believe I would keep my retained bulls with my heifers beyond about 6, possibly 7 months of age. We usually weaned at 6 months, and the bulls we were keeping were sorted off and housed elsewhere a week or two later. Better safe than sorry. ;-)