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article by Dr. Jan Bonsma
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<blockquote data-quote="Idaman" data-source="post: 769921" data-attributes="member: 14119"><p>Here is where your numbers come into play and genetics. If you want bigger WW and YW you will most likely get later maturing ,what I call slab sided, calves with lots of leg and no muscle. This is not the case all the time but works this way for me most of the time.Your case is you have a very good bull and had a very good friend or teacher help pic your herefords. Also grass genetics verses grain. </p><p></p><p>If we keep selecting for something we usually get it but may give up something else.</p><p></p><p>My thoughts are AVERAGE, and MODERATE. But that is just me.</p><p></p><p>Anyone else? Ideas</p></blockquote><p></p><p>Agree![/quote]</p><p></p><p>I also agree but with at least one qualification.</p><p></p><p>As the breeds in general have increased their mature size so much haven't the perceptions of average and moderate changed in the same direction? A frame size 3.5 to 4 might have been at one time average and moderate but now probably a 5 to 5.5 is so considered. We need a standard to compare to that is not influenced by the latest fads of the day.</p><p></p><p>We run nearly all black bulls on our commercial cows due to market dictates. We move the cattle every few weeks to another pasture farther up the mountain. If it stays hot by the third move the first of July we won't have any black bulls left in the bunch. They have all pulled off the cows and holed up in the bushes along some creek. That is why we have to include a few Hereford bulls in the bunch or we wouldn't get a calf sired after that date.</p><p></p><p>Then we can spend a great deal of time over the next six months trying to find those blacks and fight them all the way home. To be fair the Herefords do stay with the cows and breed but they tend not to want to come home in the fall but would rather stay high in the mountains in the snow where we ususally find them from the air.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Idaman, post: 769921, member: 14119"] Here is where your numbers come into play and genetics. If you want bigger WW and YW you will most likely get later maturing ,what I call slab sided, calves with lots of leg and no muscle. This is not the case all the time but works this way for me most of the time.Your case is you have a very good bull and had a very good friend or teacher help pic your herefords. Also grass genetics verses grain. If we keep selecting for something we usually get it but may give up something else. My thoughts are AVERAGE, and MODERATE. But that is just me. Anyone else? Ideas[/quote] Agree![/quote] I also agree but with at least one qualification. As the breeds in general have increased their mature size so much haven't the perceptions of average and moderate changed in the same direction? A frame size 3.5 to 4 might have been at one time average and moderate but now probably a 5 to 5.5 is so considered. We need a standard to compare to that is not influenced by the latest fads of the day. We run nearly all black bulls on our commercial cows due to market dictates. We move the cattle every few weeks to another pasture farther up the mountain. If it stays hot by the third move the first of July we won't have any black bulls left in the bunch. They have all pulled off the cows and holed up in the bushes along some creek. That is why we have to include a few Hereford bulls in the bunch or we wouldn't get a calf sired after that date. Then we can spend a great deal of time over the next six months trying to find those blacks and fight them all the way home. To be fair the Herefords do stay with the cows and breed but they tend not to want to come home in the fall but would rather stay high in the mountains in the snow where we ususally find them from the air. [/QUOTE]
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