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<blockquote data-quote="DOC HARRIS" data-source="post: 202950" data-attributes="member: 1683"><p>Haymaker- What is the average Milk EPD of your cow herd? A milk EPD of 7.6 sounds a little suspect to me, however it depends on what your HERD average is in order to ascertain whether that is too low an EPD or not.</p><p></p><p>Also - for discussion purposes - let's project a hypothetical situation, which is probably NOT so hypothetical, however let's imagine this situation: A Breeder has a cow of which he is very proud - with one exception! She has difficulty in producing enough milk to properly raise a calf to weaning and weighing half of her body weight at 205 days. Her Milk epd is +8. the milk EPD is that part of a calf's weaning weight attributed to milk and mothering ability. The Breeder mates her to a bull with a milk EPD of +18. The resullting calf from that mating (Bull or Heifer) possesses a Milk EPD of +13 ( +18 plus +8 = 26 divided by 2=+13.) Let's assume that the Breeder KEEPS the BULL calf to sexual maturity and mates him to a female with a milk EPD of +33. The resulting progeny show a milk EPD of +23(+33 plus +13 divided by 2 = +23). The progeny is retained and bred to a mate with a milk EPD of +30. THAT progeny produces an offspring with a milk EPD of +27. (Figured the same mathematical way as before.) The F4 Generation (which follows and is next in line) is bred to a mate with a milk EPD of 40! (There are a few around at this point in time!) +40 plus +27 = +67, divided by 2 = 33.5. NOW - the fifth generation mating brings the percentage of "pureness" to 96.875% and the sixth generation brings it to 98.4375% - which is pretty darned close to 100%, which, of course, mathematically, can never be reached - HOWEVER - pragmatically it has ALREADY BEEN REACHED! Close enough, anyway. </p><p></p><p>My point is - in achieving this hypothetical degree of "MILK EPD" -<em>DESIRABILITY???</em> we have created a monster of sorts - reduced Carcass $Values and minimized Hindquarter development resulting in "FUNNEL BUTTS" , and lessened Rib Eye measurements. MY PERSONAL OPINION: in some breeds (Angus particularly) the concentration of HIGHER AND HIGHER Milk EPDs is causing a depletion of some of the traits that made desirable and optimal self-sufficient brood cows of years ago a sought-after commodity. We need to put the brakes on our insatiable pursuance of higher milk EPDs, and higher Maternal EPDs, and Lower and Lower BW EPD's or we will end up with Black, Polled Dairy Cows - wondering where the Beef Traits disappeared to, and longing for the "good old Days!"</p><p></p><p>. . . . . .along with lost Phenotype!</p><p></p><p>DOC HARRIS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DOC HARRIS, post: 202950, member: 1683"] Haymaker- What is the average Milk EPD of your cow herd? A milk EPD of 7.6 sounds a little suspect to me, however it depends on what your HERD average is in order to ascertain whether that is too low an EPD or not. Also - for discussion purposes - let's project a hypothetical situation, which is probably NOT so hypothetical, however let's imagine this situation: A Breeder has a cow of which he is very proud - with one exception! She has difficulty in producing enough milk to properly raise a calf to weaning and weighing half of her body weight at 205 days. Her Milk epd is +8. the milk EPD is that part of a calf's weaning weight attributed to milk and mothering ability. The Breeder mates her to a bull with a milk EPD of +18. The resullting calf from that mating (Bull or Heifer) possesses a Milk EPD of +13 ( +18 plus +8 = 26 divided by 2=+13.) Let's assume that the Breeder KEEPS the BULL calf to sexual maturity and mates him to a female with a milk EPD of +33. The resulting progeny show a milk EPD of +23(+33 plus +13 divided by 2 = +23). The progeny is retained and bred to a mate with a milk EPD of +30. THAT progeny produces an offspring with a milk EPD of +27. (Figured the same mathematical way as before.) The F4 Generation (which follows and is next in line) is bred to a mate with a milk EPD of 40! (There are a few around at this point in time!) +40 plus +27 = +67, divided by 2 = 33.5. NOW - the fifth generation mating brings the percentage of "pureness" to 96.875% and the sixth generation brings it to 98.4375% - which is pretty darned close to 100%, which, of course, mathematically, can never be reached - HOWEVER - pragmatically it has ALREADY BEEN REACHED! Close enough, anyway. My point is - in achieving this hypothetical degree of "MILK EPD" -[i]DESIRABILITY???[/i] we have created a monster of sorts - reduced Carcass $Values and minimized Hindquarter development resulting in "FUNNEL BUTTS" , and lessened Rib Eye measurements. MY PERSONAL OPINION: in some breeds (Angus particularly) the concentration of HIGHER AND HIGHER Milk EPDs is causing a depletion of some of the traits that made desirable and optimal self-sufficient brood cows of years ago a sought-after commodity. We need to put the brakes on our insatiable pursuance of higher milk EPDs, and higher Maternal EPDs, and Lower and Lower BW EPD's or we will end up with Black, Polled Dairy Cows - wondering where the Beef Traits disappeared to, and longing for the "good old Days!" . . . . . .along with lost Phenotype! DOC HARRIS [/QUOTE]
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