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An AHA response.
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<blockquote data-quote="Brandonm22" data-source="post: 623620" data-attributes="member: 7645"><p>I don't disagree with any of that; but we do have a history of incorporating cattle with no EPDs into an EPD system. All the breeds have done that as they established their own breedwide EPD system. We do know how to do that. As far as the bull data is concerned, if you used two bulls on 50 cows and raised all the calves in the same contemporary group and bull A's calves on average weighed 25 lb more than bull B's you do not have to know anything about the cows to infer from that that Bull A sires a growthier calf than Bull B. Certainly a very knowledgable person who was trying to influence the EPDs on a young low accuracy bull could breed all the best cows to one bull or the other (or just falsify the data); but that is not what you suspect happened with your bull. Certainly the data would be more accurate if the cows had their own highly accurate EPDs; but that is not entirely necessary either. Most reg. cows don't have enough calves in the system to have real accurate numbers before they are 8 or 9 years old anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We KNOW why THAT won't happen. Less associations means less Association Executive VP jobs, less Breed assn Presidents, less magazine editors, and less Board of directors and less money and honors all the way around. Money is also why a common database IS probably in the future. It is a heck of a lot cheaper for 40 breeds to pay into crunching one set of numbers than it is for 40 associations to pay for crunching 40 different sets of numbers. Also if you start collecting data (and data entry fees) from progressive commercial cattlemen there is the potential to dramatically increase the total revenue produced while dramatically decreasing the costs born by the associations. The technology exists right NOW for every cow owner (whether the cattle are purebred or commercial straightbred, crossbred, or composite) to use software like CattleMax or CattleSoft and collect data and for all of that data to go via the internet into one centralized pool of data and you could certainly produce very accurate EPDs for at least the 200 most used AI sires. The problem right now is with the politics (who gets paid and how much they get paid) than it is with developing the technology platform. I believe we are already in the process of creating a unified DNA database for the top 1000 sires industrywide and that is a heck of a lot more complicated than crunching EPDs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Brandonm22, post: 623620, member: 7645"] I don't disagree with any of that; but we do have a history of incorporating cattle with no EPDs into an EPD system. All the breeds have done that as they established their own breedwide EPD system. We do know how to do that. As far as the bull data is concerned, if you used two bulls on 50 cows and raised all the calves in the same contemporary group and bull A's calves on average weighed 25 lb more than bull B's you do not have to know anything about the cows to infer from that that Bull A sires a growthier calf than Bull B. Certainly a very knowledgable person who was trying to influence the EPDs on a young low accuracy bull could breed all the best cows to one bull or the other (or just falsify the data); but that is not what you suspect happened with your bull. Certainly the data would be more accurate if the cows had their own highly accurate EPDs; but that is not entirely necessary either. Most reg. cows don't have enough calves in the system to have real accurate numbers before they are 8 or 9 years old anyway. We KNOW why THAT won't happen. Less associations means less Association Executive VP jobs, less Breed assn Presidents, less magazine editors, and less Board of directors and less money and honors all the way around. Money is also why a common database IS probably in the future. It is a heck of a lot cheaper for 40 breeds to pay into crunching one set of numbers than it is for 40 associations to pay for crunching 40 different sets of numbers. Also if you start collecting data (and data entry fees) from progressive commercial cattlemen there is the potential to dramatically increase the total revenue produced while dramatically decreasing the costs born by the associations. The technology exists right NOW for every cow owner (whether the cattle are purebred or commercial straightbred, crossbred, or composite) to use software like CattleMax or CattleSoft and collect data and for all of that data to go via the internet into one centralized pool of data and you could certainly produce very accurate EPDs for at least the 200 most used AI sires. The problem right now is with the politics (who gets paid and how much they get paid) than it is with developing the technology platform. I believe we are already in the process of creating a unified DNA database for the top 1000 sires industrywide and that is a heck of a lot more complicated than crunching EPDs. [/QUOTE]
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