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<blockquote data-quote="alexfarms" data-source="post: 617053" data-attributes="member: 8677"><p>The bull I mentioned did go to the Amana colonies for that natural sire test on the Amana colonies commercial herd and I believe he was in the first year of that test. So, a portion of the data may have come from that test, but not all of it. The 11 ulrasound results came in when there were just the 2 available for view on the performance pedigree and the other nine probably came from calves out of commercial cows in the owners herd. I know when the Amana colonies test was announced, the story was the calves would be fed out and carcass data would be available but I don't know that they said they would be developing epds from those calves out of commercial cows. I think there would be some problems with using that data from the Amana test. It was a natural sire service test where a group of bulls was turned out with a large group of females. And the bulls were of different ages. I have done some multiple sire breeding pastures and have found the older larger bulls have an advantage to the extent that they sire most of the calves. I watched the bulls a bit when a cow was in heat and the boss bulls would knock the other bulls off when he mounted. I don't think you would get a random sample of matings for each bull with natural service. Wouldn't the smaller or younger, less dominant bulls be more likely to breed the females that were more difficult for the larger bulls to breed? Wouldn't the larger or older bulls have more trouble servicing small cows or heifers? Someone mentioned that the bulls epds have settled to the average of his parents. I know his sire dropped about half of what he dropped. So it appears to me all three of them may have moved down proportionally, although I don't remember what his dams epds were previously. This would indicate to me that alot of weight has been placed on calves out of commercial cows that are unidentifiable within the genetic analysis.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="alexfarms, post: 617053, member: 8677"] The bull I mentioned did go to the Amana colonies for that natural sire test on the Amana colonies commercial herd and I believe he was in the first year of that test. So, a portion of the data may have come from that test, but not all of it. The 11 ulrasound results came in when there were just the 2 available for view on the performance pedigree and the other nine probably came from calves out of commercial cows in the owners herd. I know when the Amana colonies test was announced, the story was the calves would be fed out and carcass data would be available but I don't know that they said they would be developing epds from those calves out of commercial cows. I think there would be some problems with using that data from the Amana test. It was a natural sire service test where a group of bulls was turned out with a large group of females. And the bulls were of different ages. I have done some multiple sire breeding pastures and have found the older larger bulls have an advantage to the extent that they sire most of the calves. I watched the bulls a bit when a cow was in heat and the boss bulls would knock the other bulls off when he mounted. I don't think you would get a random sample of matings for each bull with natural service. Wouldn't the smaller or younger, less dominant bulls be more likely to breed the females that were more difficult for the larger bulls to breed? Wouldn't the larger or older bulls have more trouble servicing small cows or heifers? Someone mentioned that the bulls epds have settled to the average of his parents. I know his sire dropped about half of what he dropped. So it appears to me all three of them may have moved down proportionally, although I don't remember what his dams epds were previously. This would indicate to me that alot of weight has been placed on calves out of commercial cows that are unidentifiable within the genetic analysis. [/QUOTE]
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