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2 yr Angus bull - what do you think?
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<blockquote data-quote="regolith" data-source="post: 626236" data-attributes="member: 9267"><p>Kenny, if you (or anyone else who knows) could let me know what the normal oldest cow in those herds would be I'd be interested in that number. I've seen too many times the statement (from animal welfare groups) that dairies routinely cull their cows after only one or two years due to milk drop, and I'm sure it's not true.</p><p>Most farms I've worked on, the oldest cow would be 14 or 15.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One bull, I suspect. Don't know the details of where it was bought, but we had a few calves with white feet, white tail tips. Then a black heifer with the whole collection - forehead star, white feet, white tail tip, might have had white on the underside as well. I don't recall if any of these had horns, but I don't think so. My boss did go back to the breeder, the breeder said something about his son must have lied/been mistaken about whether or not a certain cow was on heat when a Friesian bull jumped the fence... (it's *hard* not to remember an excuse like that).</p><p>A few years later on another farm we ran three Angus bulls, one the boss had bred himself (he had Angus cows alongside the dairy), the other two bought from a breeder. I asked him some pretty hard questions about his own bull when I started to put two and two together, but by then it was too late - he'd run with one group of heifers, one of the Angus with another, the third, meanest bull I've ever had to handle, with the dairy herd. I knew which bull had been where, and the following season we hauled calves out of heifers from both groups. The horned ones and the Friesian-type markings were from his own bull - it was 3/4 Holstein Friesian.</p><p>But I heard him later tell other people 'must have been Friesian in those bulls he bought'. I don't think he got any more bulls from that breeder - fair enough; one of those bulls certainly caused a lot of calving issues. But if he said they were throwing Friesian calves (and I heard him say it), it was wrong.</p><p>I believe the first was a registered breeder, the second wan't claiming they were pure Angus.</p><p></p><p>I think I might have encountered my first set of scurs this year, from Te Maniu over a crossbred cow. Never heard of them till seeing them mentioned in these forums, and most Angus crosses I've handled either have horns or they don't - seen several with proper horns, never believed they were 50% Angus.</p><p>I reared a bull calf for IHC, and checked his head and painted a cross on his back when he was eight weeks old so that the vet wouldn't de-horn him. Vet claimed he found horns. I'd checked the day before and whatever he had wasn't horns, the skull felt a bit bony but no points.</p><p>So had argument with vet over whether or not Angus crosses could have horns.</p><p></p><p>Do you know anything about how LIC sources their beef bulls? I find it a bit rough that there's no information given about them and no choice in which bull you get, but I've never asked for details on these bulls either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="regolith, post: 626236, member: 9267"] Kenny, if you (or anyone else who knows) could let me know what the normal oldest cow in those herds would be I'd be interested in that number. I've seen too many times the statement (from animal welfare groups) that dairies routinely cull their cows after only one or two years due to milk drop, and I'm sure it's not true. Most farms I've worked on, the oldest cow would be 14 or 15. One bull, I suspect. Don't know the details of where it was bought, but we had a few calves with white feet, white tail tips. Then a black heifer with the whole collection - forehead star, white feet, white tail tip, might have had white on the underside as well. I don't recall if any of these had horns, but I don't think so. My boss did go back to the breeder, the breeder said something about his son must have lied/been mistaken about whether or not a certain cow was on heat when a Friesian bull jumped the fence... (it's *hard* not to remember an excuse like that). A few years later on another farm we ran three Angus bulls, one the boss had bred himself (he had Angus cows alongside the dairy), the other two bought from a breeder. I asked him some pretty hard questions about his own bull when I started to put two and two together, but by then it was too late - he'd run with one group of heifers, one of the Angus with another, the third, meanest bull I've ever had to handle, with the dairy herd. I knew which bull had been where, and the following season we hauled calves out of heifers from both groups. The horned ones and the Friesian-type markings were from his own bull - it was 3/4 Holstein Friesian. But I heard him later tell other people 'must have been Friesian in those bulls he bought'. I don't think he got any more bulls from that breeder - fair enough; one of those bulls certainly caused a lot of calving issues. But if he said they were throwing Friesian calves (and I heard him say it), it was wrong. I believe the first was a registered breeder, the second wan't claiming they were pure Angus. I think I might have encountered my first set of scurs this year, from Te Maniu over a crossbred cow. Never heard of them till seeing them mentioned in these forums, and most Angus crosses I've handled either have horns or they don't - seen several with proper horns, never believed they were 50% Angus. I reared a bull calf for IHC, and checked his head and painted a cross on his back when he was eight weeks old so that the vet wouldn't de-horn him. Vet claimed he found horns. I'd checked the day before and whatever he had wasn't horns, the skull felt a bit bony but no points. So had argument with vet over whether or not Angus crosses could have horns. Do you know anything about how LIC sources their beef bulls? I find it a bit rough that there's no information given about them and no choice in which bull you get, but I've never asked for details on these bulls either. [/QUOTE]
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