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People buy into registered animals and their recent investment makes them the newest sage of the subject sitting up on the mountaintop. The more they spend, the higher the instant IQ. I just discussed a historic Angus herd with a guy who was mad that folks with long term experiences and...

To me - the litmus test - Why do folks go back and use older bulls that they have used before? What do they say? Do they say, "Well his EPDs have improved since the last time I used him" or do they say, "He did a great job and I love his sons and daughters"? The results matter in those decisions...

It depends on the skill of the breeder. If you use old AI bulls, you cannot rely on the EPDs. The breed disses the old animals and gives them poor EPDs. In those cases, you deal with experience, advice from older folks or reported individual data. The AAA has a table of yearly EPDs and AHIA...

From what I have seen of bulls that friends have recently purchased from herds that value enhanced EPDs, the hoof scores are not worth a toot.

Same for Angus. EPDs are climbing and the AHIR average data is stagnant. It is a broken system merely used for promotion. Real data and individual data are the highway. Add in observed type. known ancestors and such. EPDs are the guardrails on the outside of the shoulders. EPDs are good to...

If the herd's general EPDs are not attractive or point out problems then why publish them? Just saying.

I am not sure that BLM is the focus. The best bulls ANYWHERE have proper feet and legs, correct angles and perfect stride. Add in that a straight topline is often linked to the prior traits. Frame score either adds value or subtracts value in calves. again, not BLM related. Sort of like "Pop...

You can always buy them back.

Could be Scooter or Skippy! :ROFLMAO:

Profit = income - costs

"Never had a bull that acted that way. I guess I would just have to try and see if I could bluff him too. Might need a big stick to throw and a pellet pistol not pumped too high to penetrate, just to sting him. That would not be funny if he did not give right of way. Ha-ha!! I am sure that race...

If true, BW and HP would be negatives.

If you want small, try an Angus bull like OCC Realist. You will get high fertility and solid function in the females but you can't make them tall even if you put them on a pedestal. I played with that some years back. Three generations later, still small framed. Threw out the rest of that semen...

Thanks. I'm on the right planet now for a few days.

Call me stupid and I'll come to supper, but why is that cow horned in discussions and polled (picture) all at the same time? :unsure:

I doubt that frozen ground is the issue on free and proper travel of gait. There are two extremes: bound up animals from improper structure or sometimes it seems to be from excess muscling or being over conditioned. The other extreme is when cattle swing largely from the hip and there is a still...

Quite extreme.

What has one-upped the CAB deal are some of the buyback programs if you use bulls from the folks who are, for all practical purposes, acting as integrators. They pay top market prices plus premiums. You'd have to know the market value of your normal calves and then add a premium to that value...

He had a herd of them and called them Ajax cows.

The thread has taken a new life and various topics. What has always puzzled me is that one breed association can successfully launch a market changing campaign and there has never been another association that can compete. Is there an answer what the other breeds didn't jump in quicker or don't...