Your Opportunity to Chime in on Greg Judy's Methods

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@who cares appreciate your feedback. I've always been suspect of taking advice from people who supplement their operation by selling themselves. Moreover I try to stick to observation and facts, as you said it's a science.

South Poll cows are generally overpriced and I've seen many that should be culled. As you said there is too much money in them to cull and that's setting up a train wreck for the breed. It's compounded by the many newbies interested in them. Now I've seen some very good bulls, I've got a south poll bull and now have some yearling Angus cross heifers.
 
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You have to be able to take the good and leave the bad and that goes for just about any of these people out there. I have picked up a few things from Greg that I wouldn't have otherwise known. I have no family background in livestock, extension is not real helpful here, and most people in this area don't manage their grass well at all.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about Greg is he talks about all these things that will make you go broke but then turns around and sells cattle for outrageous prices.

I don't care that he sells them that high. My issue is you get these people, who are often new, to believe that buying these cattle is what they need to do in order to be profitable. He talks about if you do this or that you will go broke and frankly he is often right about that but what do you think buying 5 south poll heifers for $20k+ is going to do?

I don't want to make a blanket statement over south poll because there are problems among all breeds and I have seen some good looking south polls but I have consistently noticed bad udders and from herds of those who are supposed to be reputable south poll breeders.
 
who cares said:
I think we all have to do what works for us, I just know that rotational grazing does a great job finishing cattle, producing milk, and it does improve soil and allow me to have high stocking density. You can switch heights to adjust your legume to grass ratio, you can do high density, stomp 80%, leave it high, leave it low and long recover, you can not touch any equipment and cull for cows that produce well on high fiber lower quality forage (like Gabe Brown who grows all his forage for the year in a few months), you can leave it vegetative and move faster, you can use back fences, alleyways for water, move once every week once every 3 days, or you can do whatever you like. lest it sound harsh I actually don't care what people do, because we all have different goals. Some people love feeding and love big cows. Some like horns, some like certain colors. Some believe certain colors are more fly resistant and I do not argue with their personal experience as I have a lot of different experience. I see great results using bale grazing, guys 3 hours east of me will argue til the cows come home that nothing but unrolling works and bale grazers are wrecking soil, having bare ground for years and on and on (but they get out their tracks and unroll on top of snow and I don't want to use my tractor if I can help it). Every year I learn something new and I find something different I can cull for (whether I want to or not:p). I know that not many are interested in doing what I do and that's great because they want different things in life. I love watching nature, the grass grow, and I take my teens out with me moving fences my favorite part of the day. Some people don't like doing that and I understand they have different goals. That's okay. I will never be able to afford more land here unless I get another mortgage so I maximize the land I have.
Also, quite a few of the comments were not things greg judy does, but are things other producers do (Salatin etc). Greg doesn't multi species graze but he talks about thinking he should and asks others how well it works, he doesn't wean (he runs everything together and I guess he "weans" by pulling steers to sell at a year, but heifers aren't weaned ever and he culls cows that lose condition while nursing) etc. I think it's important to try to be accurate and not accuse people of things they don't do - he does a lot we might not all want (he had a lot of cloudy eyes and blindness I wouldn't want to see in my cows adn heifers), but I don't need to accuse him of something he hasn't done.
I wish I could edit a couple of the above comments, but I couldn't find the edit button for anything.
Click to expand...

back in '08'ish greg was pretty big about telling everyone to mulit species graze.. i think its even in his first book. a few years ago he was saying he's gonna start weaning b/c his cows were still letting them suck.

Also.. You act like he owns tons of land.. he has a family farm.. leased I think 4 places (in what? 30 years?) and just bought a few lots they put up for sale. Yea. the lots were probably expensive but this was really his first time even buying a farm! HAHA. So he has around what.. 1600 acres and 1/2 is woods.. and runs like 150 brood cows on it. not very impressive for someone telling you how to ranch for a living.

i put wheels on the front of my UTV to unroll hay, I put all the bales out for around 2 weeks at a time, then everyday I just have to drive out and unroll them, move them in and done. saves about 2 hours / day in the winter and if its snowy / cold saves around 4 hours.
 
yea I just looked at his book. "add sheep" "add brush goats" "add pigs" follow them with the cows.. etc.. etc..
 
What's being brought up here repeatedly is a big problem for most new to the cattle business, they think breed A, B or C is a silver bullet. All they have to do is buy this kind here and it's all downhill from there. Cows are cows. It takes a long time to learn what works and what don't, some people never learn. They fall in love, or "I paid $xxxx for her or him", so on and so forth. You have to be ruthless with your cows. It's not just culling, it's selection. I own less cows now than I ever have in my time of being in the business, but I'm working less and enjoying it more. They are more efficiently making me money. My wife is happier too!
 
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chaded said:
You have to be able to take the good and leave the bad and that goes for just about any of these people out there. I have picked up a few things from Greg that I wouldn't have otherwise known. I have no family background in livestock, extension is not real helpful here, and most people in this area don't manage their grass well at all.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about Greg is he talks about all these things that will make you go broke but then turns around and sells cattle for outrageous prices.

I don't care that he sells them that high. My issue is you get these people, who are often new, to believe that buying these cattle is what they need to do in order to be profitable. He talks about if you do this or that you will go broke and frankly he is often right about that but what do you think buying 5 south poll heifers for $20k+ is going to do?

I don't want to make a blanket statement over south poll because there are problems among all breeds and I have seen some good looking south polls but I have consistently noticed bad udders and from herds of those who are supposed to be reputable south poll breeders.
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Warren, how many Corrientes can you buy for $20,000 and still have enough to buy a good terminal bull?
 
My crosses are a bit heavier but I've selected or bought smaller framed cows previously but still aimed for an 1100-1200 pound cow. Some have that skinnier rat tail.

I once asked Greg how someone could make money paying 4k for a heifer and he gave his honest answer: "no it's best to breed up".

And I hear you on disreputable breeders. There is one breeder in Virginia and no cattlemen I know of has been happy with his SPs. One woman I know sold them after a year. Id prefer straight red Angus but they are hard to find in this state.
 
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chaded said:
You have to be able to take the good and leave the bad and that goes for just about any of these people out there. I have picked up a few things from Greg that I wouldn't have otherwise known. I have no family background in livestock, extension is not real helpful here, and most people in this area don't manage their grass well at all.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about Greg is he talks about all these things that will make you go broke but then turns around and sells cattle for outrageous prices.

I don't care that he sells them that high. My issue is you get these people, who are often new, to believe that buying these cattle is what they need to do in order to be profitable. He talks about if you do this or that you will go broke and frankly he is often right about that but what do you think buying 5 south poll heifers for $20k+ is going to do?
Click to expand...

His one book He's awfully vehement saying guys, you cannot make money spending lots of money on dogs, sheep etc. even has suggested prices. What he charges is double what he said you can make money off. 😁

I don't have a sour grapes attitude, I just can't charge prices for animals when they're not worth it. I'm also really bad selling at farmers markets.... Good thing I have really well trained adult children who don't do like I do, and instead say this has to be worth our time and we deserve to be paid fairly and appropriately for a high quality product.
 
cowman82 said:
Also.. You act like he owns tons of land.. he has a family farm.. leased I think 4 places (in what? 30 years?) and just bought a few lots they put up for sale. Yea. the lots were probably expensive but this was really his first time even buying a farm! HAHA. So he has around what.. 1600 acres and 1/2 is woods.. and runs like 150 brood cows on it. not very impressive for someone telling you how to ranch for a living.
Click to expand...

I didn't say he had a tons of land, I said he has enough money to compete with developers for farms. 40 to 160acre parcels and he bought six, and leases 10.
As I mentioned, his unfair advantage as he calls it, are his free and cheap land leases.

Two years ago he had 300+ cow calf pairs along with his 40 to 80 bulls and his heifers. And he had 1200 acres - Ian innes said he's inefficient :)

Low-cost land allows him to be inefficient if he chooses to, but he was making a living at this before he spoke and wrote books. He's just now able to make it more easily with equipment he never used to recommend and other practices that he has told people he switched to because his interns want a life. I have to admit it was a big shock seeing the equipment that he said you shouldn't buy. I don't even own an ATV or a utv, I actually unroll with a $400 homemade roller and when that doesn't work in the snow, I push it by hand with my kids.
He honestly tells everybody he has the money to buy it now , that he's bought more metal than he ever should have and it makes life easier. He's not hiding these things.
 
It must suck to be immortalized by every thing you once preached - whether by books or followers.
Salatin, Brown and others have changed a lot in 20 years. While they certainly believed some practices were very beneficial, their sons and interns don't prefer to raise chickens or sheep etc and being good multi generational farmers who know it's important to let younger try and do different things, , they have changed what they do. I am not sure why Judy has fewer sheep, and does not follow them behind the cows as he said they are his money makers and in the future as he and Jan get older they'll just have sheep. When I was there he had 30 ewes on 3 acres and move every 3-7 days. And I couldn't make money with lambing rates of 1.2 like he said he has. He said you can't get them to breed back and raise twins without grain so it's the sacrifice he makes on grass. My ewes who do 2.5-3 some years hadn't heard that thankfully.

A guy east of me has Judy cows that are way better than Greg's - but we have better grass here. And he feeds well.
I am very careful at what I am vehement about about as it almost always comes back to bite me. 😁
 
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One thing i have learned is no matter if its Judy, Stalling, or clinchvalley86, if i pay attention i can learn something. Not always a good something but might save me from spending money on something I don't want.
No i don't want to move cows every day but i graze 11 months a year by managing my grazing better.
 
kenny thomas said:
One thing i have learned is no matter if its Judy, Stalling, or clinchvalley86, if i pay attention i can learn something. Not always a good something but might save me from spending money on something I don't want.
No i don't want to move cows every day but i graze 11 months a year by managing my grazing better.
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There aren't many producers that actually do move their beef cows on a daily basis. Those moves provide for an %82 (approximately) forage utilization efficiency, and a healthy pasture. Most producers I work with are accepting/happy moving their cows once a week and getting a %65-%70 forage utilization efficiency and a healthy pasture.

Many/most producers I start working with have no rotation, a %35 forage utilization efficiency, and unhealthy pastures.

My 'conservation goal' is a healthy pasture. I'll help any producer reach their personal goal as long as it also meets my/the NRCS goal of a healthy pasture.
 
BFE said:
What's being brought up here repeatedly is a big problem for most new to the cattle business, they think breed A, B or C is a silver bullet. All they have to do is buy this kind here and it's all downhill from there. Cows are cows. It takes a long time to learn what works and what don't, some people never learn. They fall in love, or "I paid $xxxx for her or him", so on and so forth. You have to be ruthless with your cows. It's not just culling, it's selection. I own less cows now than I ever have in my time of being in the business, but I'm working less and enjoying it more. They are more efficiently making me money. My wife is happier too!
Click to expand...
There are very few truly silver bullets. Most producers have a particular 'cartridge' that they prefer. The end result though is that just about any 'cartridge' is going to produce a similar final result provided you 'aim the gun' in the right direction.
 
kenny thomas said:
One thing i have learned is no matter if its Judy, Stalling, or clinchvalley86, if i pay attention i can learn something. Not always a good something but might save me from spending money on something I don't want.
No i don't want to move cows every day but i graze 11 months a year by managing my grazing better.
Click to expand...
I'll help ya figure out what not to do! It's only money, right?
 
Silver said:
Around here a 800 lb calf is worth $500 more than a $450 lb calf.
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Same is true here, sort of. But one could get more of those 5 weights. And pound for pound, they're more valuable. In my case I'm talking 5 to 6 frame cattle... I think. And I get them to weaning size dirt cheap.

It's apples to oranges in some ways. But apples to apples in other ways.

When ground is limited, why not maximize what can be grown on it, and profited from it.

I enjoy moving 2, 3, 4, sometimes 5 times a day (weekends). It's fascinating to me watching the grass jump back.

Cant tell ya how many times i havr heard local older guys say "wish i could get my pasture to grow like my lawn does." As im sure everyone hears/thinks it.

Different strokes for different folks.

I hope to join Kenny's club of feeding hay for less than 60 days this winter. Honestly I'm shooting for feeding 1 roll per head, jury is out. May have to supplement some protein or energy. This stockpile is worrying me to death. 😆
 

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