BFE
Well-known member
I'm a moron, but am smart enough to know a cow/bulls back foot should cover their front foot's tracks when walking. Why do these high dollar outfits not follow one of the basic principles of the selection process?
Sounds simple right? Not as easy in practice. Ellingson's have done a really good job of breeding cattle with exceptional hoof shape and quality. The structure you are being being critical of is cattle walking on frozen ground. Yes what you are seeing is real but not as bad as video may look. The Angus breed has real problems with foot shape and hoof structure the epds are helping but it is going to take several generations to correct. Finding a good footed, deep healed Angus bull is a find in todays world.I'm a moron, but am smart enough to know a cow/bulls back foot should cover their front foot's tracks when walking. Why do these high dollar outfits not follow one of the basic principles of the selection process?
I doubt that frozen ground is the issue on free and proper travel of gait. There are two extremes: bound up animals from improper structure or sometimes it seems to be from excess muscling or being over conditioned. The other extreme is when cattle swing largely from the hip and there is a still leg appearance.Sounds simple right? Not as easy in practice. Ellingson's have done a really good job of breeding cattle with exceptional hoof shape and quality. The structure you are being being critical of is cattle walking on frozen ground. Yes what you are seeing is real but not as bad as video may look. The Angus breed has real problems with foot shape and hoof structure the epds are helping but it is going to take several generations to correct. Finding a good footed, deep healed Angus bull is a find in todays world.
Ellingson Homegrown is a bull we have used and he sure stamps a nice foot on the offspring that have hit the ground here. It seems Ellingson does make foot structure a priority in their program. It is nice to see the Angus breed "quantify" the foot. Imo "poor" feet doesn't leave you with much longevity or foundation to build on. It is one of our top identifiers.Sounds simple right? Not as easy in practice. Ellingson's have done a really good job of breeding cattle with exceptional hoof shape and quality. The structure you are being being critical of is cattle walking on frozen ground. Yes what you are seeing is real but not as bad as video may look. The Angus breed has real problems with foot shape and hoof structure the epds are helping but it is going to take several generations to correct. Finding a good footed, deep healed Angus bull is a find in todays world.
Richnm, that is a good thing you did. Jameson is a new bull. I have been watching him for a while trying to figure out how he would turn out. I had my eyes on one calf of his, and that was all I knew about. Tell me where you check a bull's DNA or find information that we are speaking of. I went back to see if his numbers had dropped, and they were still high. But I did not know about any other calves besides the one I watched.
Do tell me where I can find how his numbers are running at this point. Is there such a site?
I just had company and they just left, and I want to write more here as EPD's are so interesting to me, and I enjoy the discussion as there is much to learn.
I noticed that the bullbarn EPD Comparisons tool is still out of order. I wonder if they are tweaking it again. I write them when it goes off. I just did not do it today. That is such a quick tool to use that I wear it out.
I personally would not want to lose any of her EPD's. I was thinking today about how so often, a very great cow is responsible for the bull and the heifers produced. Just like when we were talking to @Nesikep, he had that cow that keeps giving him these great heifers. I too have a cow that was named Sydgen Rachel, she was out of a Rachel cow and Sydgen Ally. And every heifer she had was outstanding, and each heifer she had was out standing, and now so many years later, her heifers are still giving us the top calves. So sometimes you can trace a great cow that throws bulls that will create your best calves, just like her. I found myself trying to track down a cow that had great calves, and then had to put it down.
Let me look at Prolific's EPD's right quick..
I wanted to say something about some really good bulls that come on the market, they advertise them heavily and they look great, then they disappear the following year. One of the bulls that I looked up I found discussed here was Sydgen Fate 0028. That is one heck of a bull, but, I don't like his back legs. That is what is the problem so often. But he is huge and muscular and his numbers would do your cow great, and not pull her down. I like his conformation all the way down till it gets to his back legs. What a shame!!
HP is heifer pregnancy. Before they came out with that number, the tool we used to determine the fertility and early fertility of a heifer was the scrotal size of the bull. When an embryo is developing, the testicles become ovaries in it is a heifer, or vice versa, if it is to be a bull, the ovaries then drop to be testicles. Not saying that they were either one in the beginning, but saying that is the same charting Ha-ha What and how that animal becomes male or female. So you always want a good or great scrotal number as it reflects on the heifers. Sydgen Fate 0028, his scrotal number is 2.03. I was going to him to see if he could pull that up on your cow, then I remembered his back legs. But as I look at Sydgen Fate's HP # is is only a 10.4??? And I wonder, what are they basing that on? I guess over the years of when someone decided to breed their heifer? I thought for sure that Scotal would be a part of deciding the fertileness. As I learned about EPD's early in the beginning, I always would just buy cows with high scrotal marks because it was an indicator of fertility and raising herd bulls.
Profoud....
His numbers are not bad at all. As of today, they don't pay you for RE or Marb when it goes across the scale. Unless you get into freezer beef. But those numbers and not awful.
If you like the looks of Profound, then he might be a good bull. I just don't know anything about him.
On Bullbarn, they have a category for videos. They have a video of Prolific, but not for Profound. I am not sure of the strength of Profounds back legs as he has them stretched out straight behind him. Let me locate a video if I can find one...... He is a really good looking bull, but they will not show him walking. Let me keep digging....
I had to come back and edit this, as this is a son of Profound 8155. But the leg set on 8155 is the same if not straighter. He will be a short stepper like below. Now to find the 8155 video, and they do not want to show it.
Walking below, this is what I don't care for. When he travels, there is more movement of his leg behind him that what you see going forward. I want my bull to step further forward as he must keep up with a cow when breeding. He has to move with her. This bull takes very short steps forward, but you will see more length of his leg trailing than going forward. Imagine a race horse that tried to run a race. How far they must be able to move their rear legs forward to keep propelling forward. I know he is not a horse, but the mechanics are the same. He must be athletic to be a long breeder. If I have a good bull with great legs, he will never go to the sale barn. He will always go to another herd. But a weak rear legged bull his life will be short.
I am always looking at the bulls and going over their numbers and if I see something else I will say something.
BAR-E-L NATURAL LAW 52Y
All these bulls from the same farm. I am impressed.
To clarify, he was not my bull ever. I do however, have several of his sons.
They look similar to him but our bulls don't get that big because of feed quality. A ton bull is big for us, most mature at 1850 to 1900.@gcreekrch I refer to him as your bull because you brought him to everyone's attention. But if you have some of his sons, how did they turn out? When I like to see a bull in my pasture, he is the kind I like to look at. There is nothing much more beautiful than a big strong impressive bull.