When is a Bull Calf too big to band?

[Dave]

I was at two different brandings this spring where the bulls had been banded right after birth. At both there were calves that require surgery to finish the job. One had about 200 calves. So about 100 male calves. Every calf was checked and 3 or 4 required a knife cut to get a nut that had been missed. The second branding only had 60 calves. So 30 males. There had to be 7 or 8 that required a knife. I was at another branding in April where those bull calves weighed up to 500 pounds. They were knife cut. Those steers now probably average 750, maybe more.

Dave - that is NOT the problem with the band - it's a problem with the PERSON doing the banding. Husband & I NEVER banded, he cut every one - whether it was at birth or at 500+. Since my nephew Phil is here, I bought a bander. So that's 6 calving years and we have never had a problem. Of course, our numbers are way less. But, the thing is, if you can count to TWO, you're good. One thing about cutting, if you have two in the bucket, you're good.

I know the problem is the application not the band. The people involved here .... well it sure aint their first rodeo. I always found it a lot tougher to find both at the new born age. Add in that these people had a Eastern WA or Oregon range cow most likely blowing snot up their backside while putting on the band. At some point that distraction might cause a person to alter their judgement slightly.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I was at two different brandings this spring where the bulls had been banded right after birth. At both there were calves that require surgery to finish the job. One had about 200 calves. So about 100 male calves. Every calf was checked and 3 or 4 required a knife cut to get a nut that had been missed. The second branding only had 60 calves. So 30 males. There had to be 7 or 8 that required a knife. I was at another branding in April where those bull calves weighed up to 500 pounds. They were knife cut. Those steers now probably average 750, maybe more.

Dave - that is NOT the problem with the band - it's a problem with the PERSON doing the banding. Husband & I NEVER banded, he cut every one - whether it was at birth or at 500+. Since my nephew Phil is here, I bought a bander. So that's 6 calving years and we have never had a problem. Of course, our numbers are way less. But, the thing is, if you can count to TWO, you're good. One thing about cutting, if you have two in the bucket, you're good.

I know the problem is the application not the band. The people involved here .... well it sure aint their first rodeo. I always found it a lot tougher to find both at the new born age. Add in that these people had a Eastern WA or Oregon range cow most likely blowing snot up their backside while putting on the band. At some point that distraction might cause a person to alter their judgement slightly.

LOL - that is sooo true.

 

[TCRanch]

I've always been told that castrating them young takes away the "bull" look that some will get at 500-600# which equals a few more dollars at the sale. It also takes thier mind off azz and puts it on grass so they're not riding other calves as bad which is good all the way around. Any thoughts on this?

Looking bullish is not necessarily a good thing. Only reason my crew discovered a stag/cryptorchid last year when we weaned is because he looked too bullish. Didn't want to operate & wean at the same time so I pulled him & sold him separately. Seasoned buyers can spot a stag & I definitely got docked.

 

[snoopdog]

I believe the data supports better gain leaving them boys at least until 500 or thereabouts. They don't get too big to band with a ratchet bander(not sure if that's the right term ), tetanus a must at over 300 Id say though . I can't and won't band at birth anymore , but I don't believe there is a difference between surgical and banding if it's NOT fly season at normal weaning weights . Stress is stress, and if you're weaning and castrating and vaccinating , it all adds up and you can expect setbacks . If you do it in steps, you can minimize that .

I will take back the first sentence , as I can't find the link to support it . What I do find , are a whole lot of research articles that say there is no difference. YMMV.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I believe the data supports better gain leaving them boys at least until 500 or thereabouts. They don't get too big to band with a ratchet bander(not sure if that's the right term ), tetanus a must at over 300 Id say though . I can't and won't band at birth anymore , but I don't believe there is a difference between surgical and banding if it's NOT fly season at normal weaning weights . Stress is stress, and if you're weaning and castrating and vaccinating , it all adds up and you can expect setbacks . If you do it in steps, you can minimize that .

I will take back the first sentence , as I can't find the link to support it . What I do find , are a whole lot of research articles that say there is no difference. YMMV.

Unless they are implanted steers then your first sentence is absolutely correct.

 

[snoopdog]

I believe the data supports better gain leaving them boys at least until 500 or thereabouts. They don't get too big to band with a ratchet bander(not sure if that's the right term ), tetanus a must at over 300 Id say though . I can't and won't band at birth anymore , but I don't believe there is a difference between surgical and banding if it's NOT fly season at normal weaning weights . Stress is stress, and if you're weaning and castrating and vaccinating , it all adds up and you can expect setbacks . If you do it in steps, you can minimize that .

I will take back the first sentence , as I can't find the link to support it . What I do find , are a whole lot of research articles that say there is no difference. YMMV.

Unless they are implanted steers then your first sentence is absolutely correct.

Thank you for the comment , but if we are preweaning implanting , aren't we making excuses for our mommas ? I totally believe in post weaning implants being the best money a cattleman spends, other than a good bull . If you don't wean on the trailer .

 

[JMJ Farms]

Thank you for the comment , but if we are preweaning implanting , aren't we making excuses for our mommas ? I totally believe in post weaning implants being the best money a cattleman spends, other than a good bull . If you don't wean on the trailer .

I don't think so. We are just substituting hormones for the ones we lose when we castrate. Implants still won't make up for poor milkers.

 

[skeeter swatter]

When do they become too big to band?

Never! Have banded many 1000+ lb bulls with California bander. Will dry up and fall off in half the time if slit sack open right after band applied and yes, give tetanus toxoid at same time.

can't say I have banded any that were 1000+ lbs. , but I have banded some that were pretty big and that slit is the way to go. I have said that several times on this site, now get ready there will be several start saying how stupid of an idea that is. I could even name you some of the ones who will say it, I bet half of them have never even tried it, but it works and they will dry a lot faster than just banding them.

Do you ever have any problem with fly's/maggots?

 

[bird dog]

I prefer to band around two months of age when the nuts are a little bigger and you have a little more to hang on to. I don't care for an open wound in fly season and I don't trust my unexperienced help with a sharp knife behind a squirming calf.
I can't recall ever missing one but every now and then, I'll leave one intact because I can only find one nut.

I have one now that is about 4 months of age with an empty sack. There was nothing there when I first ran him through a couple months ago, and nothing yesterday when he went through again. The sack is very small. He looks like a calf that was knife cut. Any suggestions on him?

 

[BRYANT]

Never! Have banded many 1000+ lb bulls with California bander. Will dry up and fall off in half the time if slit sack open right after band applied and yes, give tetanus toxoid at same time.

can't say I have banded any that were 1000+ lbs. , but I have banded some that were pretty big and that slit is the way to go. I have said that several times on this site, now get ready there will be several start saying how stupid of an idea that is. I could even name you some of the ones who will say it, I bet half of them have never even tried it, but it works and they will dry a lot faster than just banding them.

Do you ever have any problem with fly's/maggots?

No with a drain slit they dry up a lot faster then fall off with out it they walk around with a glob of rotting flesh hanging from them. That being said I think you are better off to band them when they are small. I am not recommending banding big bulls but if I do I cut a slit in the sack.

 

[elkwc]

I used to knife cut everything. But with running bulls year round and not being there full time some of the bulls would get bigger. We started using the Callicrate Bander and haven't had any issues. Has anyone used the zip bandits? Have heard good results and just ordered some.

 

[TCRanch]

I used to knife cut everything. But with running bulls year round and not being there full time some of the bulls would get bigger. We started using the Callicrate Bander and haven't had any issues. Has anyone used the zip bandits? Have heard good results and just ordered some.

Saw your other post. And no, I haven't but interested in what others have to say.

 

[NonTypicalCPA]

Zip bandits are made about 20 miles from me. If they work good I bet they will become popular - pretty simple application. I've got a couple young bulls that need to be banded, I'm going to give these a try.

 

[elkwc]

CPA will be interested to hear your opinion after you use them. As soon as I get the ones I ordered I will use a few. If they work well imagine we will use them as they look to be simple to use.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I just googled it. That is super easy and no tool!!! Keep us posted.
You would def want to vaccinate for tetanus.

 

[elkwc]

I just googled it. That is super easy and no tool!!! Keep us posted.
You would def want to vaccinate for tetanus.

We give 8 way with tetanus when we work them. 8 way is all we have used for several years. It will be the weekend of the 7th & 8th that I will likely use them. They won't be here yet this weekend. They have been shipped so should be here by next Friday I hope. I understand they are fairly new. The tubing is the same length regardless of weight. So some feel that is why it takes longer for the smaller calves to drop off. There is less tension on their cords than the bigger ones have. I know with the Callicrate the bigger ones seem to take 3-4 weeks and the smaller ones around 2. Just opposite of what I'm told is the case with these. I'm told they are a lot easier to apply and get both testicles and faster. I will update after I have used them.

 

[M.Magis]

I have a California bander I use for just a few per year. Its about as easy and fool proof as I can imagine. If I cut a slit in the sack, everything is gone within 2 weeks. I keep saying I'll do them earlier each year, but they're usually 400-600 lbs before I get to it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I watched a video on the Zip Bandit - not sure how you know when you pulled it tight enough? Looks like he is just putting a zip tie on them.

 

[sstterry]

I watched a video on the Zip Bandit - not sure how you know when you pulled it tight enough? Looks like he is just putting a zip tie on them.

I saw these a few months ago and this was my first thought. How do you know it is tight enough? I understand the cheerio band can keep reducing in size. But the Zip Bandit how can you be sure it will be tight enough?

 

[elkwc]

As I understand you pull it until it hits the tubing. That is why you get more tension on the bag of a bigger calf and less on a smaller calf.The tubing is what stretches and maintains the tension. Similar to a calicrate bander.I will see if any instructions come with them but that is how I understand it. But there is only a few around that have used them at this point.