When is a Bull Calf too big to band?

[sstterry]

I can't band at birth. I have a whole group of 6-month-old Bulls that need to be vaccinated and banded. When do they become too big to band?

 

[TCRanch]

We used to band at birth but since now it's generally just me they're banded when we work them at 3 months (and I have a crew helping me). That said, I did have one that was almost 6 months old at the time & he was still banded. I have just the basic "cheerio" bander & one of the XL banders. I would strongly recommend Covexin 8 or something else with tetanus.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Generally, the 'cheerio' type banders are good up to 500 lbs. When too big for that type, there's XL banders or Calicrate banders, designed specifically for larger animals.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

When do they become too big to band?

Never! Have banded many 1000+ lb bulls with California bander. Will dry up and fall off in half the time if slit sack open right after band applied and yes, give tetanus toxoid at same time.

 

[sstterry]

Thank you all! I would definitely use Covexin 8 with all the other vaccines for tetanus.

 

[Dempster]

I would give them a dose of covexin 8 a couple weeks prior to banding and a second dose when you place the band. A single dose at the time of banding will do nothing to prevent tetanus.

 

[Lucky]

I end up cutting a few big calves that were missed at first working every year. I've never had a problem doing this but allot would depend on what you plan on doing with the calf. In my experience castrating or dehorning 500-600# calves sets them back 60-90 days but gains 5-10 cwt at sale. Just have to figure risk vs reward. Others may have different experiences with this?

 

[JMJ Farms]

I end up cutting a few big calves that were missed at first working every year. I've never had a problem doing this but allot would depend on what you plan on doing with the calf. In my experience castrating or dehorning 500-600# calves sets them back 60-90 days but gains 5-10 cwt at sale. Just have to figure risk vs reward. Others may have different experiences with this?

I'm with you Lucky. I cut several 500-600 about 4 years ago. First and last time. It works though. Not knocking anyone who does it but it ain't for me for two reasons. One it's hot here during the times they would need to be cut. Biggest reason is it knocked them back bad even though they were still on the cow. I catch them when they're born anyway to tag them so I decided to band at birth. Tag, band, BoSe shot, Vit A&D shot and paint navels. Just works better for my situation.

 

[Dave]

I do prefer cutting over banding but I don't like it if they are much over 500. I have a friend who buys and bands a lot of 700-800 pound bulls. About 3 days after banding he runs them back in and cuts off everything about an inch below the band. I have seen some of those bigger banded bulls that have a stinking rotten mess. There is just too much there to just dry up. His solution works well. Everything below the band is dead by then. A sharp knife it only takes a second and it seems to heal quicker.

 

[Lucky]

We always knife cut, never tried banding. Not sure which is better. That discussion could go on forever. Seems no matter how hard I try I always end up with 1 or 2 needing cut or dehorned in the fall at weaning time. They always live through it just never really rebound like I would like.

 

[JMJ Farms]

We always knife cut, never tried banding. Not sure which is better. That discussion could go on forever. Seems no matter how hard I try I always end up with 1 or 2 needing cut or dehorned in the fall at weaning time. They always live through it just never really rebound like I would like.

I guess one is as good as the other IMO. Here I think the buyers like knife cut better because they know both cods are gone. I haven't had a calf YET that I couldn't get both in a band. Had three or four over the years that took me 10 minutes or so and I probably should have just knife cut. If you can't get both when banding then that's not a crime..... just don't put the band on. Nothing wrong with not be able to get both nutz, but there is something wrong with not being able and putting the band on anyway.

 

[Lucky]

I knife cut because that's just how it's done around here. You may be on to something about buyers wanting knife cut. Several of the bigger sales in this area specify "knife cut". I've got a friend that has several hundred cows and he swears banding everything at 500-600 # is the only way to go. I'm definitely no expert on this, really don't matter as long as the jewles are removed I suppose.

 

[snoopdog]

I believe the data supports better gain leaving them boys at least until 500 or thereabouts. They don't get too big to band with a ratchet bander(not sure if that's the right term ), tetanus a must at over 300 Id say though . I can't and won't band at birth anymore , but I don't believe there is a difference between surgical and banding if it's NOT fly season at normal weaning weights . Stress is stress, and if you're weaning and castrating and vaccinating , it all adds up and you can expect setbacks . If you do it in steps, you can minimize that .

 

[kenny thomas]

I believe the data supports better gain leaving them boys at least until 500 or thereabouts. They don't get too big to band with a ratchet bander(not sure if that's the right term ), tetanus a must at over 300 Id say though . I can't and won't band at birth anymore , but I don't believe there is a difference between surgical and banding if it's NOT fly season at normal weaning weights . Stress is stress, and if you're weaning and castrating and vaccinating , it all adds up and you can expect setbacks . If you do it in steps, you can minimize that .

Studies of a chemical given off caused by the stress when they are cut or banded shows the level drops very quickly on castrated and very slowly with the banding. I knife cut as early in life as I can catch them.
With bought calves I still knife cut up to 700 lb. Don't buy anything needing cut bigger than that.
Vet at VA Tech compares growth of a calf cut or banded at birth that is given an implant as being equal to a bull calf left intact to 500lb. He says on his own he wants to wait till the head gets out before implanting. Then castrated them as soon as they hit the ground.

 

[farmerjan]

I do prefer cutting over banding but I don't like it if they are much over 500. I have a friend who buys and bands a lot of 700-800 pound bulls. About 3 days after banding he runs them back in and cuts off everything about an inch below the band. I have seen some of those bigger banded bulls that have a stinking rotten mess. There is just too much there to just dry up. His solution works well. Everything below the band is dead by then. A sharp knife it only takes a second and it seems to heal quicker.

We don't knife cut, but band. If we do them young, then it is not too traumatic, BUT ....we always do them when the moon is going from last quarter to new moon when the almanac suggest..going from the thighs down. Less blood flow, seems to be less stress. Still, we have found as your friend, that banding bigger, and getting them in to cut off the sack, which we do about a week later, makes for a much less smelly mess and there is no prolonged waiting for them to dry up. We have also found that banding bigger calves that are still on the cow, they are back to eating/nursing within hours like nothing had happened. The callicrate type bander cuts off the feeling in less than 20 minutes, whereas the small "cheerio" type bands seem to take alot longer to cut off the feeling. We will give tetanus to anything that we feel needs it, including some that we have used the small bands on when the calves are 6-10 weeks. It's cheap, and if it prevent s losing one calf it is well worth it.
Knife cut calves do tend to bring a few cents more here, but we also find that waiting til they are a little older, it is alot easier to make sure you get both nuts, as they are more often fully descended after the calf is a few weeks old. We have never banded one that we could not get both down. Have one we just turned out to pasture, with his momma, that was 5-6 weeks. Could only find one nut and after some serious manipulating, did not band with just one nut. If we get them in anytime before we sell, and can get him in the chute, we will band if we can get 2, if not he will get sold as a bull. The difference between bulls and steers has not been as great this year, so it won't hurt that much.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Kenny is right on.
Research I have read says stress level is higher initially with surgical castration vs banding, but ends much quicker and calves end up overall gaining better than the banding. All articles & trials show EARLY castration (banding or surgical) is the best by far, 2nd best is surgical, banding is the least desired results over-all through weaning, feedlot & carcass data.
Choice - cut your finger off quickly with a hatchet or put a rubber band on it & wait for it to die & fall off???? eewwww

 

[Dave]

I was at two different brandings this spring where the bulls had been banded right after birth. At both there were calves that require surgery to finish the job. One had about 200 calves. So about 100 male calves. Every calf was checked and 3 or 4 required a knife cut to get a nut that had been missed. The second branding only had 60 calves. So 30 males. There had to be 7 or 8 that required a knife. I was at another branding in April where those bull calves weighed up to 500 pounds. They were knife cut. Those steers now probably average 750, maybe more.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I was at two different brandings this spring where the bulls had been banded right after birth. At both there were calves that require surgery to finish the job. One had about 200 calves. So about 100 male calves. Every calf was checked and 3 or 4 required a knife cut to get a nut that had been missed. The second branding only had 60 calves. So 30 males. There had to be 7 or 8 that required a knife. I was at another branding in April where those bull calves weighed up to 500 pounds. They were knife cut. Those steers now probably average 750, maybe more.

Dave - that is NOT the problem with the band - it's a problem with the PERSON doing the banding. Husband & I NEVER banded, he cut every one - whether it was at birth or at 500+. Since my nephew Phil is here, I bought a bander. So that's 6 calving years and we have never had a problem. Of course, our numbers are way less. But, the thing is, if you can count to TWO, you're good. One thing about cutting, if you have two in the bucket, you're good.

 

[BRYANT]

When do they become too big to band?

Never! Have banded many 1000+ lb bulls with California bander. Will dry up and fall off in half the time if slit sack open right after band applied and yes, give tetanus toxoid at same time.

can't say I have banded any that were 1000+ lbs. , but I have banded some that were pretty big and that slit is the way to go. I have said that several times on this site, now get ready there will be several start saying how stupid of an idea that is. I could even name you some of the ones who will say it, I bet half of them have never even tried it, but it works and they will dry a lot faster than just banding them.

 

[Lucky]

I've always been told that castrating them young takes away the "bull" look that some will get at 500-600# which equals a few more dollars at the sale. It also takes thier mind off azz and puts it on grass so they're not riding other calves as bad which is good all the way around. Any thoughts on this?