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I like cash too, and private treaty sales are fine between buyer and seller. When I take something to the stockyards I'm hoping to get all that it will bring and those penhookers know how much to offer so they can still make some money. Id just rather make those other dollars on my animals as for somebody else too🤣
Sale barn takes a pretty big cut.
 
Try being a pen hooker at any of the sales around here. You will be run off the property and told to never come back.

Just worked 85 calves that got weaned this morning. It cost $5.14 a head for the vaccine based on Valley Vet pricing. Took maybe an hour. If the two hired guys make $15 an hour (probably less) the labor cost comes to $0.35 per calf.
 
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Quite easy for it to cost 1.25-1.50/h/d to feed calves gaining 2+lbs/day (after they adjust) if you aren't doing it on grass. Vaccines and labor $25 or more.

My unweaned calves gain a heck of a lot more than 1.25/day w no grain on momma's milk.There doesn't seem to be a concenssus that there's a per lb premium for preconditioned calves. The argument that the unweaned calves shrink more might hold water but there's lots of things that affect shrink as much or more than the difference between the shrink of a weaned or unweaned calf. It may not even be better for the calf to be weaned at home on the average operation instead of under the watchful eyes of experts. One death = "profit" loss of how many calves? I don't even see an argument except in certain circumstances-mainly weaning and feeding much longer than 45 days.

If someone does it because of tradition or because they like or want to great, there's your reason but it doesn't usually make business sense.
yep, if I'm going to keep them 45 days after weaning (which is done in october), I might as well keep them through the winter and sell them in the spring when everyone wants to put them on grass
 
Uncle Sam takes an even bigger bite as do our friends in Frankfort. Cash ain't a bad thing.
Our County and city take their share too, they come up with lots of taxes and fees. Off topic but we have to pay a transient tax on our short term rental to the city. The crazy thing is we are not even in the city limits.
 
You are pretty.correct. They are a different kind of cattle buyer. One with instant cash and no records. In the past many older person wanted just that. I only know of a couple sales that still allow penhooking.
They will sure swarm you when you pull up to the sale in Greeneville. Almost come in a race to see who can talk to the driver first and have first shot at buying them. Most are guys that have been around forever and made a living doing it for 30-40+ years. They carry the biggest wad of $100 bills I've seen.
 
It wasn't bad if they accepted it when I said I was going to just run the calves through the sale. It was the arguing around and trying to convince me to sell to them that got me fired up.
That is when I would have a problem too. Most know that I won't price mine to them, so we just smile and wave at each other as I drive by and save each other's time. Like anything, there are good ones and bad ones. There are a couple that I am friends with and trust them and have sold to before. I know they might make a little money on them by bidding them up, but they aren't gonna rip me off. One has saved me a time or two by telling me I oughta take one back home and get it straightened out before selling it, or I would get docked really bad. I'm amazed how some can look at one for about 30 seconds and guess the weight and what they will bring so close. Those old guys can tell some stories. Even though I might not deal with most of them, it's interesting to sit by some of them at the sale and listen to them as calves come through and learn some stuff about why they bring what they do. Lots of little things they have picked up on over the years sitting in those seats.
 
That is when I would have a problem too. Most know that I won't price mine to them, so we just smile and wave at each other as I drive by and save each other's time. Like anything, there are good ones and bad ones. There are a couple that I am friends with and trust them and have sold to before. I know they might make a little money on them by bidding them up, but they aren't gonna rip me off. One has saved me a time or two by telling me I oughta take one back home and get it straightened out before selling it, or I would get docked really bad. I'm amazed how some can look at one for about 30 seconds and guess the weight and what they will bring so close. Those old guys can tell some stories. Even though I might not deal with most of them, it's interesting to sit by some of them at the sale and listen to them as calves come through and learn some stuff about why they bring what they do. Lots of little things they have picked up on over the years sitting in those seats.
Yes, they know the ins and outs of the business for sure. When I was young and getting started, there were quite a few around at every yards. They come up on the sides of the trailers and hit on the sides, hollering and throwing their hands to get the cattle to move around. It aggravated me, then they come up and pull money out of their shirt pockets saying I give you x amount fir um. Then if you didn't agree to sell them they start running them down. Some of those fellas could be downright pushy. I think a lot of it was they saw me as young and green which was true but I was used to that being the view. Lots of times I would have lost $100-200 a head if I'd sold them that way to them.
One time though I regret not selling to one. After our local stockyards burned down animals went all over the area and a goat got in with our neighbors cows and stayed there for several years. When he finally sold all of his cattle the goat came over on my side of the fence. Wild as a deer and messed up ever time I tried to get the cattle up. Finally it came in the lot with the cattle and I got it penned in. Pen hooker offered $50 for it, I didn't want to deal with them as then they would try to hook me ever time. Should have took that 50, the take home was only $5.🤣
 
Because he straight up said he took advantage of them and their blatant inexperience, that's why. Both of you know better, you're defending his worthless ass, and he has no shame in his actions or behavior.

Birds of a feather?
Sorry you feel that way. So I guess if I come to your farm, you price me a bull, I accept the price, I would be the bad guy.
And I don't agree with a penhooker being very pushy so I'm not defending that.
 
Sorry you feel that way. So I guess if I come to your farm, you price me a bull, I accept the price, I would be the bad guy.
Sure you aren't and no, because I'm not inexperienced and know how to price my animals. Unless Warren is lying (woe unto my teeth) about the people he referenced in his statement, he specifically mentioned they were inexperienced and then alluded that he capitalized on that facet.
 
@TennesseeTuxedo as far as I'm concerned if I were selling something for $5000 and a prospective buyer offered $4500, that doesn't make one a bad guy in my book. That's common practice among a lot of folks as those head prices for registered or breeding stock can be subjective. A person is free to accept or decline or split the difference. That's different than being approached at the stockyards by someone intending to underbid you so they can turn around and speculate that day on something that the prices are more defined.
 

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