Dubcharo
Well-known member
Just had identical male twins from an embryo carrier. Did someone ever saw that? Around 80lbs and up after half an hour. Charolais purebred.
Twins from embryo
- Thread starter Dubcharo
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Nesikep
Well-known member
never seen it, but I never did ET either... Glad to hear they're doing well 
Till-Hill
Well-known member
Had pair shorthorns heifers at our county fair one year that came from one egg. I bought some eggs few years ago and one split but cow ended up aborting them. It happens! Glad yours are doing well!
Cibster
Well-known member
Actually had the same exact thing happen last year. Put an embryo in and it split and gave me to identical Balancer heifers. I thought they were completely identical but we were clipping them for pictures a couple weeks ago and found that one had a little white spot on the bottom of her brisket and the other one didn't. Other than that their white markings on their bellies are the same!
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Cibster,
Even clones of an animal don't necessarily have exactly the same markings... have seen clones of a number of Holsteins... and the old Panhandle Slim bucking bull ... yeah, the HOs are black and white, but the markings are nowhere near 'identical'... the PS clones... white with black spots, but they don't look exactly like ol' Slim himself.
Even clones of an animal don't necessarily have exactly the same markings... have seen clones of a number of Holsteins... and the old Panhandle Slim bucking bull ... yeah, the HOs are black and white, but the markings are nowhere near 'identical'... the PS clones... white with black spots, but they don't look exactly like ol' Slim himself.
As the father of twins, I have self educated myself on them a little. Mine are fraternal ofcourse. Identical twins are very interesting to me. I guess in theory, a clone would be even more similar than monozygotic twins. Still where a horse clone, and a bucking bull clone are concerned, the environment would be a large deciding factor. If Schamper, or one of the Panhandle Slim clones were raised at my house, their "learned" traits would be very different than the original. I'm not the hand with a horse that Cervi is. I know almost nothing about bringing a bucking bull along. Now if an animal were cloned strictly for its phenotype, or its marbeling ability, that would be a whole different story. My management practices would have very little to do with that.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I think coloration is 'patterned' genetically, but the growth of the embryo will affect the exact markings.. the clone of a brockleface cow will still be a brockleface, and be recognizable, but the sizes of the patterns may still differ a little.
In high school a pair of my classmates were 'identical' twins... and if you didn't know them, you could get fooled, but they both really had different features, though their build, height, etc was the same.
I think I clone would be the same as a monozygotic twin.. they both have exactly the same DNA.. Depending on the methods used for cloning, the clone may have less similarity, depending on if the clone has the same mRNA... It's been too long since I learned that stuff for me to say anything definitively.
In high school a pair of my classmates were 'identical' twins... and if you didn't know them, you could get fooled, but they both really had different features, though their build, height, etc was the same.
I think I clone would be the same as a monozygotic twin.. they both have exactly the same DNA.. Depending on the methods used for cloning, the clone may have less similarity, depending on if the clone has the same mRNA... It's been too long since I learned that stuff for me to say anything definitively.
Well last year I talked to a man who says he breeds two cows with one straw of semen(have to be in heat at the same time obviously), now this? You guys sure know how to get the most bang for your buck :lol2:
Glad all is well. To be honest I have always wondered about that possibility. That and the donor having like 3 babies inside when breeding after a flush. So can I ask you what the mating was Dubcharo?
Glad all is well. To be honest I have always wondered about that possibility. That and the donor having like 3 babies inside when breeding after a flush. So can I ask you what the mating was Dubcharo?
OP
OP
Dubcharo
Well-known member
Pedigree is like GGD 338A (can) The sire is a Bluegrass son and the mother was a 13 years old cows we raised.
We have twins from a dose we split (3 calves from that dose). On 123 cows this Spring we have 40 in calves with half a dose.
Our vet always give a shot after a flush to be sure the cow is clean of embryos.
We have twins from a dose we split (3 calves from that dose). On 123 cows this Spring we have 40 in calves with half a dose.
Our vet always give a shot after a flush to be sure the cow is clean of embryos.
We had a set of twin heifers a few years ago they both DNA tested to be ET calves so it does happen just not often.
Gizmom
Gizmom
shortybreeder
Well-known member
On the topic of clones not matching, the bull MAB is a good example. Lautner keeps running a banner ad on steerplanet with a picture of their MAB clone, and while he does resemble the original MAB, the markings are noticeably different.
shortybreeder
Well-known member
Also I put in a some embryos that were all ultrasounded as bulls, so I'm crossing my fingers that one of them splits into two heifers, but I may be dreaming on that one :lol:
cbcr
Well-known member
Clones are very interesting for sure. It has been done on horses, cattle etc. While the resulting animal is supposed to be a duplicate copy of the genetic makeup of the original animal, that does not include the color or coat pattern.
It will be interesting too see how well clones do in breeding situations and how well they pass on to their offspring. In the horse world, Charmayne James has a clone stallion of her famous horse Scamper that she won her barrel racing titles with. Scamper was a gelding so he never produced.
As was mentioned, using clones of older animals (that were great producers) on today's genetic base may or may not have the same or better results. Different environments, different genetic makeup of the cows they are used on, etc.
Cloning may not be all bad if looked at and used in the right way. Some breeds have gotten off course and if some of the great genetics of yesteryear were available today could go a long way in making some needed adjustments.
Their is a study taking place in Texas on taking tissue from animals that yield prime carcasses and creating breeding clones of them to see if the traits can be passed on.
It will be interesting too see how well clones do in breeding situations and how well they pass on to their offspring. In the horse world, Charmayne James has a clone stallion of her famous horse Scamper that she won her barrel racing titles with. Scamper was a gelding so he never produced.
As was mentioned, using clones of older animals (that were great producers) on today's genetic base may or may not have the same or better results. Different environments, different genetic makeup of the cows they are used on, etc.
Cloning may not be all bad if looked at and used in the right way. Some breeds have gotten off course and if some of the great genetics of yesteryear were available today could go a long way in making some needed adjustments.
Their is a study taking place in Texas on taking tissue from animals that yield prime carcasses and creating breeding clones of them to see if the traits can be passed on.
Fire Sweep Ranch
Well-known member
Good example of the difference between clones and original....
This is the original
http://rodgerscattle.blogspot.com/2012/ ... -boys.html
And two clones
http://www.lautnerfarms.com/new-for-201 ... -515-3284/
I know some breeders that have had several sets of split embryo twins. It is not common, but it does happen. I think it is more common with heifer embryo calves than bulls though...
This is the original
http://rodgerscattle.blogspot.com/2012/ ... -boys.html
And two clones
http://www.lautnerfarms.com/new-for-201 ... -515-3284/
I know some breeders that have had several sets of split embryo twins. It is not common, but it does happen. I think it is more common with heifer embryo calves than bulls though...
