Tips for starting a seed stock operation

[Kaden]

I've been raising commercial cattle for awhile now but I am interested in starting a seed stock herd. It has always been a dream of mine to do so. I plan to stick with Gelbvieh and Balancer. I also plan to use AI. I have a couple questions since I am new to this area of cattle.

What are the main differences in raising seed stock vs commercial cattle?

How would you go about starting the foundation of your cow herd?

I am very interested in line breeding and how to go about it?

Thanks in advance for any advice

 

[Nkline]

I think it all starts with a plan and goals. Do you want to be an elite seedstock producer, or a multiplier. Some people down talk multipliers, but it can be very lucrative. The elite seedstock producer takes a different path and is harder to establish. Their is much more work per animal in a seedstock operation, marketing, paperwork, measurement, dna collection, tattooing. To start from scratch I would flush productive old cows with acceptable pedigrees to whatever direction you are headed. As a multiplier you are after making groups of above average seedstock, as an elite breeder you are aiming toward producing great ones with usable pedigrees. The angus breeders have almost completely undone the historical breeding system because of number chasing which has been profitable for some, but has just left others with poor cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've been raising commercial cattle for awhile now but I am interested in starting a seed stock herd. It has always been a dream of mine to do so. I plan to stick with Gelbvieh and Balancer. I also plan to use AI. I have a couple questions since I am new to this area of cattle.

What are the main differences in raising seed stock vs commercial cattle?

How would you go about starting the foundation of your cow herd?

I am very interested in line breeding and how to go about it?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Don't is my advice.
It's a reputation game that takes decades.
Just because it has paper doesn't make it a better bovine. Paper won't mash the scales either. Remember a lot of your " papered cattle" will still go through the salebarn.

 

[GoWyo]

I've been raising commercial cattle for awhile now but I am interested in starting a seed stock herd. It has always been a dream of mine to do so. I plan to stick with Gelbvieh and Balancer. I also plan to use AI. I have a couple questions since I am new to this area of cattle.

What are the main differences in raising seed stock vs commercial cattle?

How would you go about starting the foundation of your cow herd?

I am very interested in line breeding and how to go about it?

Thanks in advance for any advice

I would approach it from the view of raising your own bulls first to run on your commercial cattle. You have an instant customer with your own herd and can start evaluating whether they are any good before trying to sell them to others. Don't try to raise or sell a bull you wouldn't use. We have never bought a clean up bull -- we just price the one or two yearlings we want to use for clean up a little higher and it they sell, great and we'll use a different one, if not we use him and look for the next herd sire through this process. At the same time, you will also be selecting your registered replacement females to start replacing the commercial herd and can evaluate how they are performing as they go. Nkline has really good points. Plan on 4-5 years just to get things started building the foundation and a lifetime after that. Cull ruthlessly on the registered herd.

 

[Ky hills]

I've been in both the registered and commercial cattle business. I am now commercial. My advice is that if you do go the registered route, to do it conservatively and not sink a bunch of money into cattle from big name producers or wanna be big shots. Remember the registered business is as much hype and marketing as it is anything else. The quality of a registered animal may or may not be any better than a commercial animal, and will cost a lot more.
Like others have said it takes time to develop your herd and name reputation. It's easy to get caught up in the hype and promoting of all the popular AI bulls of the month and the big name breeders and their high dollar sales. The truth is all that glitters ain't always gold. Sometimes more like a pyramid scheme of sorts. There's a lot of registered cattle stuff that goes on that is chalked up to tricks of the trade that folks new to the game aren't privy to, and it takes a while to start adding it up and figuring it out.
I don't know anything about Gelbvieh but regardless of breed, My advice would be to find some cattle close by from reputable breeders that have been with the breed a while. I wouldn't necessarily chase big name cattle, just good quality animals. As far as AI, I personally think it's a waste of time, money and effort.
It can be justified for registered outfits to bring in some new genetics, and some people are willing to pay more for AI sired calves, but goes back to all that glitters ain't gold. It just takes time to figure out what will work for your outfit.

 

[wbvs58]

I started with buying 2 cows just to benchmark against my commercial cows, they were mature cows in calf with their 3rd calf, they were good cows, one of them had her 1st calf sold later that year at the breeders bull sale and he got the 2nd top price out 100 bulls and many good judges had him as the pick of the lot. I kept going back each year and bought 2 more and got a few different cow families and formed a good friendship with the breeder and he used to steer me in the direction of his best cows he was turning over. The 2nd year I intentionally bought 2 carriers of AM for just commercial value but they were from a very good family that I would not have afforded. I did well with one of them, got a lot of heifers that tested clean, the other ended being a carrier for CA when it was discovered so I had to roll the dice twice with her offspring. Another year I picked up an old donar that was scanned open for commercial price but ended calving to the AI date and went on to produce some good heifers for me.
I did not have a plan, things just evolved and I took advantage of opportunities as they arose, I am a bit of a risk taker by nature. The herd I bought from was well respected by commercial cattlemen and always had strong sales. I have not done any embryo work, I have not had any trouble getting females from these foundation cows to propogate the cow families. I have used AI heavily and if need be there is always sexed semen to help get females.
Marketing yourself and cattle is another thing and takes time, as I have said previously breeders like me will always be "bottom feeders", we just don't attract the big buyers.

Ken

 

[Allenw]

Something that I have never truely got past thinking about is producing F1 females. It would require a source of consistent females and bulls that are comparable with your goals for your end product.


Until you sell what you produce for a premium it is only worth what it will bring at the sale barn.

 

[CalumetFarms]

I've been raising commercial cattle for awhile now but I am interested in starting a seed stock herd. It has always been a dream of mine to do so. I plan to stick with Gelbvieh and Balancer. I also plan to use AI. I have a couple questions since I am new to this area of cattle.

What are the main differences in raising seed stock vs commercial cattle?

How would you go about starting the foundation of your cow herd?

I am very interested in line breeding and how to go about it?

Thanks in advance for any advice

To me, it's probably not worth the extensive inputs.
The difference between commercial and SS? Genetics and marketing.
I'm registered and commercial cow/calf, and I raise and sell some real nice replacements most years. I've raised a couple bulls as well, as I see it the bull market is a buyers market, plenty for sale and everybody needs only 1 or 2. The sellers reputation is everything.
Selling feeder steers, and focusing on making some top notch replacement heifers has worked for me.

 

[Bestoutwest]

We're very, VERY, small. I have registered cows b/c I want to know pedigrees, and EPDS for what I have. I AI, so I'm trying to keep line-breeding to a minimum. Our finished product has always gone in the freezer, and never to someone as seed stock. It's a game that takes a lot of smoozing, money, and dedication that I don't have time for. Around me I have Shaw Cattle, Coloyer Cattle and Riverbend Ranch. There is no way that I can compete with those guys, nor the littler seed stock guys either. I think it's a great tool for improving your herd, but the reality is that it's not a game for the little guy.

 

[WFfarm]

Is there a market for commercial bred heifers out of registered bulls or AI? Like F1 SimmAngus or Balancers heifers with no papers?

 

[ClinchValley86]

I've got a neighbor who runs registered highlands. Big money right out the gate. Calves sold via auction, high demand. They're halter trained. Common price of 5 to 7500 per animal sold. Some less, some more. Bulls, steers, heifers, cows. Blew me away.

She has created a brand using social media. Impressive for sure.

 

[Nkline]

Is there a market for commercial bred heifers out of registered bulls or AI? Like F1 SimmAngus or Balancers heifers with no papers?

There is always a market for good replacement heifers, and bred heifers. There may not be more money in the bred heifers this year, but that's usually not the case. What breed or cross of cattle people want is area specific, also what people want them bred to is area specific, and can usually be found out with some sale barn visits.

 

[Warren Allison]

I've been raising commercial cattle for awhile now but I am interested in starting a seed stock herd. It has always been a dream of mine to do so. I plan to stick with Gelbvieh and Balancer. I also plan to use AI. I have a couple questions since I am new to this area of cattle.

What are the main differences in raising seed stock vs commercial cattle?

How would you go about starting the foundation of your cow herd?

I am very interested in line breeding and how to go about it?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Where are you located?

 

[Lucky_P]

I've got a neighbor who runs registered highlands. Big money right out the gate. Calves sold via auction, high demand. They're halter trained. Common price of 5 to 7500 per animal sold. Some less, some more. Bulls, steers, heifers, cows. Blew me away.

She has created a brand using social media. Impressive for sure.

Yeah, I've got a veterinary colleague west of here, who's selling 'mini-Jerseys' as fast as she can breed 'em. Crazy prices. And has branched out into mini-Zebus. Bet she's moving them, too. I don't want any of them, but I could see the little Jerseys having a use as a family cow. Highlanders or mini-Zebus here in KY... 'bout like tits on a boar hog, IMO.

 

[Little Joe]

Yeah, I've got a veterinary colleague west of here, who's selling 'mini-Jerseys' as fast as she can breed 'em. Crazy prices. And has branched out into mini-Zebus. Bet she's moving them, too. I don't want any of them, but I could see the little Jerseys having a use as a family cow. Highlanders or mini-Zebus here in KY... 'bout like tits on a boar hog, IMO.

I agree on the Zebus, no purpose other than yard decorations, too small to even crossbreed with lowlines for an F1. Some of the other small breeds I can see such as mini jersey, dexter, lowlines. Some of the mini herefords aren't great either, then some are good looking animals. A friend of mine had a mini hereford bull that looked just like any other good hereford but just shorter legs, he crossed him with some real beefy black dexters and is now running a lowline red angus bull. He don't have alot of land so it works good for him. He don't have any trouble selling them either, he prices them according to what angus calves are selling at the barn. I've thought about finishing some of his steers and see how they do, I think they'd be just right for freezer beef. He don't even get them up to work them, he feeds them a handful of cubes out of his hand a few times a week so when he needs to doctor one he says he can do it right in the pasture.

 

[Kaden]

Where are you located?

Oklahoma