textbook vs real-life with cows

[Gale Seddon]

herofan, you might check around in your area for a regional cattle association and/or your county extension agent. Often these organizations offer courses that might be helpful to you. I took a cow/calf course through the local extension agent and really enjoyed it and learned a lot. Books ARE helpful, as is an internet group like Cattle Today, but sometimes you need to be cautious about "advice" offered on some websites.

 

[Limomike]

textbook + experiences + cattletoday forum = real life

 

[Crazy Farmgirl]

I think books that offer solid research based information are a good source of knowlege, can't ever have too much knowlege. They are however not gospel, I haven't read one yet that was directed at my farm, my money and my cows not one of them has explained what to do when all that can go wrong does! I think you have to arm yourself with as much information as you can from many different sources and then at the end of the day do what works for you to meet your objective on your farm!

 

[Massey135]

Some thing I have noticed is if you go by the text book you will be broke. What is optimal for the cattle or to operate is not always cost effective.

Maybe not short-term

 

[Old_man_emu]

I did a test using the book once. I did everything verbatum and had some really respectable weaning weights. Only thing is I didn't make any money. I then, on one group, tried this mineral they were peddling. They claimed I could get an extra 25 lbs of gain by using it. I then used an implant that was going to give me another 50 lbs. And I tried a more expensive wormer that would give me another 50 lbs and even though it was more expensive it was eco friendly and I'd more than make up for its cost in reduced fertilizer costs. I don't know where that 125 extra pounds went but I sure didn't see it. Or maybe that "up to" clause in their advertisement had a lower limit on it than what I had in mind. ;-)

I wouldn't call that doing it by the book, marketing of ag products is just like ANY other industry, it's sales driven!
Not sure how serious you were about all the above!
Maybe you could post the products you used for the benefit of others ;-)

 

[dun]

I did a test using the book once. I did everything verbatum and had some really respectable weaning weights. Only thing is I didn't make any money. I then, on one group, tried this mineral they were peddling. They claimed I could get an extra 25 lbs of gain by using it. I then used an implant that was going to give me another 50 lbs. And I tried a more expensive wormer that would give me another 50 lbs and even though it was more expensive it was eco friendly and I'd more than make up for its cost in reduced fertilizer costs. I don't know where that 125 extra pounds went but I sure didn't see it. Or maybe that "up to" clause in their advertisement had a lower limit on it than what I had in mind. ;-)

Those are the claims that in the really tiny print say "Your mileage may vary" or "Subject to some very tricky limitations"

 

[backhoeboogie]

I did a test using the book once. I did everything verbatum and had some really respectable weaning weights. Only thing is I didn't make any money. I then, on one group, tried this mineral they were peddling. They claimed I could get an extra 25 lbs of gain by using it. I then used an implant that was going to give me another 50 lbs. And I tried a more expensive wormer that would give me another 50 lbs and even though it was more expensive it was eco friendly and I'd more than make up for its cost in reduced fertilizer costs. I don't know where that 125 extra pounds went but I sure didn't see it. Or maybe that "up to" clause in their advertisement had a lower limit on it than what I had in mind. ;-)

Those are the claims that in the really tiny print say "Your mileage may vary" or "Subject to some very tricky limitations"

Somebody has to pay for all that fancy print on the brochures at the sale barn offices. Funny that when you read the testimonies, they are always from folks you have never heard of.

 

[TexasBred]

Not sure how serious you were about all the above!
Maybe you could post the products you used for the benefit of others ;-)

Basically all Joe was saying was that IF all these super additives worked when fed at recommended levels you could almost feed nothing but a few pounds of additives (no grain) and still get hundreds of pounds of gain or so much increase in milk production ie; one additive advertises 4 lbs. increase in milk per cow per day....you use 3 grams of the additive...now that is some super shyt.. A few feed additives are well worth the money and will pay good dividends. 90% or more of them are nothing but hogwash.

 

[regolith]

wa reading a farming paper over the weekend, re dairy as this is a real ise in the UK, "you do not need to be big to make money" and "milk from forage pays" suddenly being touted as the way to make money in milk now. As if you knew what you were doing and did not read the books on high input, high output systems and gone down the forage route you would have been better of in the first place.

Just need to sort out the fad books from the core good books when reading.

That's a fine example of 'the textbook lacks common sense' and 'one size does not meet all'.
Maybe it does work in the southwest and wales. For all I know the climate and soils might be vastly different down there. The small, low input Scottish grazing dairy I started out working on nearly twenty years ago is no longer dairying. Sure, we can cope with low milk prices in NZ... but we don't have a 4 - 7 month winter with water-logged pastures and no growth and the sort of wet, heavy frosts that kill any long grass you do have, to plan for every year.

 

[Isomade]

Most times a little common sense and discernment go a long way.

What if you're like Hook and have neither?

 

[Jogeephus]

I did a test using the book once. I did everything verbatum and had some really respectable weaning weights. Only thing is I didn't make any money. I then, on one group, tried this mineral they were peddling. They claimed I could get an extra 25 lbs of gain by using it. I then used an implant that was going to give me another 50 lbs. And I tried a more expensive wormer that would give me another 50 lbs and even though it was more expensive it was eco friendly and I'd more than make up for its cost in reduced fertilizer costs. I don't know where that 125 extra pounds went but I sure didn't see it. Or maybe that "up to" clause in their advertisement had a lower limit on it than what I had in mind. ;-)

I wouldn't call that doing it by the book, marketing of ag products is just like ANY other industry, it's sales driven!
Not sure how serious you were about all the above!
Maybe you could post the products you used for the benefit of others ;-)

I agree completely as are many of these books that propose revolutionary breakthroughs in production. Knowledge is important and can't be understated but I've always felt if you want to learn how to grow corn you need to talk to the man with a full bin and not the man claiming disaster. Witnessing what works and also undestanding why it works is key to staying in this or any other business. Chasing butterflies and new fads is best left for hobbyists with deep pockets.

 

[jerry27150]

where i come from, we had bottled milk dairy that made money for years. then they sold the operation to a college grad who claimed he knew more than they did. he lasted about two years. had a loan officer for farm credit that told people what they needed or didn't for farming. he thought he knew more about farming than real farmers so he finally got a loan & started farming, lasted two or three years before they sold him out. so be your own judge. seen a lot of them come & go. i' listened & read everything about how to farm, but i use my own head & try some things on my own, some things work in different places. after years some people would ask me how i made money when others couldn't. have to listen, then think, good luck

 

[Brute 23]

Some thing I have noticed is if you go by the text book you will be broke. What is optimal for the cattle or to operate is not always cost effective.

Maybe not short-term

If it doesnt work short term you may not make it to see what long term looks like. ;-)

 

[dun]

where i come from, we had bottled milk dairy that made money for years. then they sold the operation to a college grad who claimed he knew more than they did. he lasted about two years. had a loan officer for farm credit that told people what they needed or didn't for farming. he thought he knew more about farming than real farmers so he finally got a loan & started farming, lasted two or three years before they sold him out. so be your own judge. seen a lot of them come & go. i' listened & read everything about how to farm, but i use my own head & try some things on my own, some things work in different places. after years some people would ask me how i made money when others couldn't. have to listen, then think, good luck

That happens fairly often around here. We've had a number of people come down here from wisconsin and newyork and were going to show these hillbillys the proper way to dairy. One that came down about 10 years ago is still here and is really succesfull, but he quickly learned and started doing it the way the hillbillys around here did.

 

[Old_man_emu]

I don't like taking advise from the fertiliser reps so I learnt how to read soil tests and what the impacts of my decisions would be. I think you have arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible so you are in charge of your own success.
As I said earlier, I dont care much for minerals for my cows, they are in good health and my calves are hitting all the targets I set for them.
If something ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[1wlimo]

wa reading a farming paper over the weekend, re dairy as this is a real ise in the UK, "you do not need to be big to make money" and "milk from forage pays" suddenly being touted as the way to make money in milk now. As if you knew what you were doing and did not read the books on high input, high output systems and gone down the forage route you would have been better of in the first place.

Just need to sort out the fad books from the core good books when reading.

That's a fine example of 'the textbook lacks common sense' and 'one size does not meet all'.
Maybe it does work in the southwest and wales. For all I know the climate and soils might be vastly different down there. The small, low input Scottish grazing dairy I started out working on nearly twenty years ago is no longer dairying. Sure, we can cope with low milk prices in NZ... but we don't have a 4 - 7 month winter with water-logged pastures and no growth and the sort of wet, heavy frosts that kill any long grass you do have, to plan for every year.

Yes you are correct, however as they duild up these herds they spend longer walking to and from pasture so spend less time eating, or are housed most of the time and a lot of the milk is being bought with grain. If the price of milk is below the price of milk then they are feeding them selves into trouble. To much attention has been placed on getting bigger and higher milk yeilds. Lots of people did not look at the costs of these goals.

 

[1wlimo]

Just after I left collage it became a fashion to sell all of your machinery, every thing includding the old machine in the undergrowth etc and buy all new. The theory being better newer machines, and fewer of them, less breakdowns, better work rates, less tired operators etc. All very good, however when you have a bad year or unusely problem that old machine that was not used for tens years is no longer there, or in year 3 or 5 when most of the machines are getting tired they all need to be replaced again. Lots of businesses failed as in bad years they did not have the cash flow. Especially as the new machines were leased, not old and paid for.

Very impressive as a new manager to have a brand new fleet of tractors in the yard however.

 

[Anonymous]

Most times a little common sense and discernment go a long way.

What if you're like Hook and have neither?

Then my name would be Isomade and not Hooknline. :lol:

Back on topic, there's no substitute for experience.

 

[Goodlife]

I have always enjoyed Isomades line at the bottom of his posts. So, I plagerized it and pasted it below. It seems to me this is a fitting way to say the best way is to gain experience but combine it with valuable new knowledge which sometimes comes from books. The two combined with some common sense make all three legs of the milking stool.

Isomades line:
The quickest way to lose money in the cattle business is to do it the way grandpa did it.....and the quickest way to lose everything in the cattle business it to forget the way grandpa did it. (Dad)

 

[TexasBred]

I have always enjoyed Isomades line at the bottom of his posts. So, I plagerized it and pasted it below. It seems to me this is a fitting way to say the best way is to gain experience but combine it with valuable new knowledge which sometimes comes from books. The two combined with some common sense make all three legs of the milking stool.

Isomades line:
The quickest way to lose money in the cattle business is to do it the way grandpa did it.....and the quickest way to lose everything in the cattle business it to forget the way grandpa did it. (Dad)

Iso just found that a few months ago. He's still trying to figure out who grandpa was talking to. :hide: