Something is Brewing

[Dave]

How did the heifers sell?

I left the sale before the heifers sold. I did turn on Superior when I got home and caught the last dozen or so heifers. They were $2,000 to $2,500. Most were pairs with young calves. The exception was the last one to sell she sold for $3,400.

That doesn't seem too bad, I wanted to go but my work schedule changed.

I could have bid for you for a nominal fee..... :cboy:

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I left the sale before the heifers sold. I did turn on Superior when I got home and caught the last dozen or so heifers. They were $2,000 to $2,500. Most were pairs with young calves. The exception was the last one to sell she sold for $3,400.

That doesn't seem too bad, I wanted to go but my work schedule changed.

I could have bid for you for a nominal fee..... :cboy:

I actually thought about that :tiphat: I didn't find out that the barge with crane was coming two days early until Monday am. I have a excavator and stacks of form panels ready to be boomed onto barge and brought back from a waterfront job. :bang: My truck was hooked to my stock trailer ready to roll and lovely wife had given the ok.

 

[CreekAngus]

That doesn't seem too bad, I wanted to go but my work schedule changed.

I could have bid for you for a nominal fee..... :cboy:

I actually thought about that :tiphat: I didn't find out that the barge with crane was coming two days early until Monday am. I have a excavator and stacks of form panels ready to be boomed onto barge and brought back from a waterfront job. :bang: My truck was hooked to my stock trailer ready to roll and lovely wife had given the ok.

One of these days I want to make that trip, but it's hard to run all the way over there to buy a cow, when you pass Crouthamel and Kessler's to get there.

 

[Nesikep]

One of my friends brought a NICE gelbvieh bull to a sale yesterday, ended up taking him home, best they could do was $2500 CAD.. so like $1900 USD?

 

[wbvs58]

I can hear the heavy breathing from all the Angus detractors from over here. Don't they all get excited when they think that the Angus run might be over? I feel sorry for them when they are going to be disappointed when they are wrong again.

Ken

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Not to worry... ag reports will include SAV America and reported prices will be up for the year.

Sav America increased SAVs sale avg. by over $3000.
Talk about inflation.

 

[Dave]

Here are some interesting local facts. Yesterday Thomas Angus sold 199 bulls. Slightly more fall yearlings than spring yearlings. The fall yearlings brought about $1,000 a head more than the spring calves. The bulls averaged $3,627. The day before Harrell Hereford had their sale. They are also located in Baker City. They sold 176 bulls. Their average was $5076. These are both long time established reputation breeders. A lot of commercial cattlemen after years of breeding Angus into their herd are going to Hereford bulls. Hy-bred vigor still works. Baldie calves sell at the top. I have a friend just north of here (750 cows) who says his Hereford bulls go to work. His Angus bulls spend the first two weeks fighting. One of my neighbors (400 cows all black) has 10 Angus and 10 Hereford bulls in his bull pasture. Every now and then when driving by has Angus bulls are fighting. I have never seen his Hereford bulls fighting.
This time of the year a person could go to an Angus bull sale nearly everyday. But how many good Hereford breeders are out there? The something that is brewing might be a lean away from breeding straight Angus by the commercial guys. Food for thought or discussion.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Here are some interesting local facts. Yesterday Thomas Angus sold 199 bulls. Slightly more fall yearlings than spring yearlings. The fall yearlings brought about $1,000 a head more than the spring calves. The bulls averaged $3,627. The day before Harrell Hereford had their sale. They are also located in Baker City. They sold 176 bulls. Their average was $5076. These are both long time established reputation breeders. A lot of commercial cattlemen after years of breeding Angus into their herd are going to Hereford bulls. Hy-bred vigor still works. Baldie calves sell at the top. I have a friend just north of here (750 cows) who says his Hereford bulls go to work. His Angus bulls spend the first two weeks fighting. One of my neighbors (400 cows all black) has 10 Angus and 10 Hereford bulls in his bull pasture. Every now and then when driving by has Angus bulls are fighting. I have never seen his Hereford bulls fighting.
This time of the year a person could go to an Angus bull sale nearly everyday. But how many good Hereford breeders are out there? The something that is brewing might be a lean away from breeding straight Angus by the commercial guys. Food for thought or discussion.

I have seen the fighting, my neighbor put 3 yearling Angus bulls on over 100 head and called it a day. The bulls fought quite a bit, but one thing was for sure, they got the job done. They were mounting everything in site.

For larger commercial operations this is probably not possible, but I would break up the groups of cows into maybe 30-40 a group and put one 15-18 month old bull in, versus having 10 bulls in on 400. Again, I realize this may not be feasible in some situations, before everyone starts howling.

The beauty of commercial is that you can go full Angus one year, liquidate everything and go straight Hereford the next, or at least it sounds that way listening to you guys. But the reality of having a registered herd is this, if you waffle back and forth and worry yourself to death over a rumor or a short term trend towards another breed you will end up nowhere. I think you should stick to your guns, no matter what you breed and do the best you can. If you breed Herefords, breed the best darn Herefords you can whether the market is strong or WEAK.

In the stock market, most people are highly unsuccessful because they see something on CNBC and sell out their stocks, buy others, then when the story changes they sell out and buy everything back again. This is a losing strategy.

 

[CreekAngus]

I'm not sure if you some of you are illiterate or just have comprehension issue. No one in any of these comments stated it was the end of Angus or that Angus were falling out of favor. The falling prices could be over saturation (too many bulls available) or commercial guys are tightening their belts. But we are seeing some serious price corrections out here in the west. And Branded, SAV has some nice bulls in stud, but ranches out here rarely use them. We all know those bulls aren't bred to run with cattle, but to go straight to stud and freeze semen. SAV can over inflate their bulls in a marketing ploy to get Joe Breeder thinking he will get 970lb bulls as well. But the real cow guys and gals know, those bulls even as a fetus were marked for a catalog and really have no real world benefit to commercial cow folks. You always state stuff like,"who wouldn't want so and so SAV bull in their herd?". No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm not sure if you some of you are illiterate or just have comprehension issue. No one in any of these comments stated it was the end of Angus or that Angus were falling out of favor. The falling prices could be over saturation (too many bulls available) or commercial guys are tightening their belts. But we are seeing some serious price corrections out here in the west. And Branded, SAV has some nice bulls in stud, but ranches out here rarely use them. We all know those bulls aren't bred to run with cattle, but to go straight to stud and freeze semen. SAV can over inflate their bulls in a marketing ploy to get Joe Breeder thinking he will get 970lb bulls as well. But the real cow guys and gals know, those bulls even as a fetus were marked for a catalog and really have no real world benefit to commercial cow folks. You always state stuff like,"who wouldn't want so and so SAV bull in their herd?". No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I find it very interesting that you say that.

RIght now, I'm working on getting 5 bulls that I can send out to the Midland test in the near future. All will be SAV genetics. Instead of folklore that they will "fall apart" or cannot make it, we will see for sure. I'm not too proud to say "I'm was wrong" if those bulls fall on their face, and don't make the cut, but what if they do kick azz? What if they truly perform? Will you eat your words? Probably not, real-world data from Midland could not even change your mind.

What If I send 5 International sons out there and they perform, and perform well.

Just so you know, and I have said it before, SAV is only a portion of what we breed to. There are at least two bulls from Hoover Angus that I am quite fond of as well.

Who knows, they might fail miserably, if so, I will probably reconsider what I breed to, but if they shine bright, what then?

As for Herefords, I have NOTHING against them, and I think they have a lot of merit for beef. I happen to like Angus better because I like data, and Angus rules on data, and branding of course. Boyd's which is about 10 miles from me is having a sale in a few days, and there will be Hereford in that sale, super nice ones at that. My question for you, if you are familiar with Boyd's, would they have been as successful as they are if they had not moved to Angus many years back? Do you think that if they had stuck with Herefords, from a purely financial standpoint, would they have the haul that they get from Angus? I seriously doubt they would even come close. They made a fortune moving to Angus.

Also, we had some really nice Hereford cattle on our farm before we decided to go with Angus in 1967.

 

[jehosofat]

No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I've seen that here in Alabama, much less in really tough range country.

 

[CattleMan1920]

No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I've seen that here in Alabama, much less in really tough range country.

What do you think Kentucky looks like?

You guys somehow think we raise cattle on a golf course with astroturf.

The land on my farm will destroy your tractors and ATV's over time, it's no picnic.

Ron's land makes mine look flat as a pancake. His gals need ropes to lower themselves down hill.

 

[Dave]

Not only is it not possible out here to split the cows into smallish groups to breed to a certain bull. It is not possible to keep the neighbors bulls from breeding your cows. My closest neighbor has all Angus cows. The couple bulls I have seen there are Angus. The next neighbor down the road uses a lot of Char bulls. Right now out in the Angus cows there is about half a dozen grey calves. Some of the BLM allotments are shared by multiple ranches. Miles and miles of fence in real rugged ground there are bad spots in those fences and cattle move from one allotment to another. The bulls breed whatever cow they happen on to. Last fall I helped haul calves that came out of Alder Creek. 350 pairs we pulled the calves off of. In the trap there was cows of nearly every color along with Angus, Char, and one Hereford bull. I know who owned that Hereford but how he managed to get there is a mystery.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Not only is it not possible out here to split the cows into smallish groups to breed to a certain bull. It is not possible to keep the neighbors bulls from breeding your cows. My closest neighbor has all Angus cows. The couple bulls I have seen there are Angus. The next neighbor down the road uses a lot of Char bulls. Right now out in the Angus cows there is about half a dozen grey calves. Some of the BLM allotments are shared by multiple ranches. Miles and miles of fence in real rugged ground there are bad spots in those fences and cattle move from one allotment to another. The bulls breed whatever cow they happen on to. Last fall I helped haul calves that came out of Alder Creek. 350 pairs we pulled the calves off of. In the trap there was cows of nearly every color along with Angus, Char, and one Hereford bull. I know who owned that Hereford but how he managed to get there is a mystery.

I see.

It was my hunch that was your scenario.

That sounds like a LOT of work, but also sounds pretty darn cool seeing all that wide open space. That is one thing I don't like about KY, the population is not overly huge, but everyone is elbow to elbow, and with Lexington encroaching upon us, it's getting even more crowded every 5-10 years.

 

[Dave]

No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I've seen that here in Alabama, much less in really tough range country.

What do you think Kentucky looks like?

You guys somehow think we raise cattle on a golf course with astroturf.

The land on my farm will destroy your tractors and ATV's over time, it's no picnic.

Ron's land makes mine look flat as a pancake. His gals need ropes to lower themselves down hill.

Have you ever been to this part of the world? When was the last time you had a cow killed by falling off a hill? It happens here. I have 400-500 foot tall shear rock walls. There are Bighorn sheep that I see regularly in my North pasture. There is no where in that pasture to drive a tractor or a quad. The South side is about 1,100 acres which runs back into 5,000 acres of BLM. There is one "road" through it. Get off that road even with a quad and you will wreck the quad and maybe kill yourself. There is a reason that cattle are gathered with horses and dogs. They use dogs because there are lots of places that you don't want to ride a horse.

 

[CreekAngus]

I'm not sure if you some of you are illiterate or just have comprehension issue. No one in any of these comments stated it was the end of Angus or that Angus were falling out of favor. The falling prices could be over saturation (too many bulls available) or commercial guys are tightening their belts. But we are seeing some serious price corrections out here in the west. And Branded, SAV has some nice bulls in stud, but ranches out here rarely use them. We all know those bulls aren't bred to run with cattle, but to go straight to stud and freeze semen. SAV can over inflate their bulls in a marketing ploy to get Joe Breeder thinking he will get 970lb bulls as well. But the real cow guys and gals know, those bulls even as a fetus were marked for a catalog and really have no real world benefit to commercial cow folks. You always state stuff like,"who wouldn't want so and so SAV bull in their herd?". No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I find it very interesting that you say that.

RIght now, I'm working on getting 5 bulls that I can send out to the Midland test in the near future. All will be SAV genetics. Instead of folklore that they will "fall apart" or cannot make it, we will see for sure. I'm not too proud to say "I'm was wrong" if those bulls fall on their face, and don't make the cut, but what if they do kick azz? What if they truly perform? Will you eat your words? Probably not, real-world data from Midland could not even change your mind.

What If I send 5 International sons out there and they perform, and perform well.

Just so you know, and I have said it before, SAV is only a portion of what we breed to. There are at least two bulls from Hoover Angus that I am quite fond of as well.

Who knows, they might fail miserably, if so, I will probably reconsider what I breed to, but if they shine bright, what then?

As for Herefords, I have NOTHING against them, and I think they have a lot of merit for beef. I happen to like Angus better because I like data, and Angus rules on data, and branding of course. Boyd's which is about 10 miles from me is having a sale in a few days, and there will be Hereford in that sale, super nice ones at that. My question for you, if you are familiar with Boyd's, would they have been as successful as they are if they had not moved to Angus many years back? Do you think that if they had stuck with Herefords, from a purely financial standpoint, would they have the haul that they get from Angus? I seriously doubt they would even come close. They made a fortune moving to Angus.

Also, we had some really nice Hereford cattle on our farm before we decided to go with Angus in 1967.

You ask questions that have absolutely nothing to do with any topic whatsoever. I like Boyd a lot, especially back to New Day. For those of you who thought the angus industry started with SAV, New Day's sire New Trend had a major impact on the breed and his dam was the prototypical dam of her time. Do you really have that big of a comprehension issue or simply like to see your own words? No one said anything about the breed coming to an end and as for your test, once again that doesn't tell us those bulls are range or herd worthy, just means they do well in a feed lot, which we already know they do, from how SAV raises them. Your analogy is horrible, here's what your trying to present, to prove SAV bulls are range worthy, I'm going to confine five of them to a feed bunk and prove through excess feed and high nutrition, these bulls can perform in a herd or on range. So if your bulls do perform amazingly well, cut the nuts off the next set, so you can have amazing feed lot steers. But if you are raising herd bulls, raise herd bulls. Quit chasing rabbit holes and writing to yourself, no one said anything about Herefords, except a trend they are seeing commercially. I try to give you a pass, but sometimes you don't know when to quit.

 

[CreekAngus]

No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I've seen that here in Alabama, much less in really tough range country.

What do you think Kentucky looks like?

You guys somehow think we raise cattle on a golf course with astroturf.

The land on my farm will destroy your tractors and ATV's over time, it's no picnic.

Ron's land makes mine look flat as a pancake. His gals need ropes to lower themselves down hill.

Now you're just being stupid on purpose. Please don't compare Kentucky grass, to western range. Oh my gosh you stock on cow to an acre, tha'ts pretty tough on you, on range its one cow 50 acres. It's a rough world you're in over there with natural irrigation.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'm not sure if you some of you are illiterate or just have comprehension issue. No one in any of these comments stated it was the end of Angus or that Angus were falling out of favor. The falling prices could be over saturation (too many bulls available) or commercial guys are tightening their belts. But we are seeing some serious price corrections out here in the west. And Branded, SAV has some nice bulls in stud, but ranches out here rarely use them. We all know those bulls aren't bred to run with cattle, but to go straight to stud and freeze semen. SAV can over inflate their bulls in a marketing ploy to get Joe Breeder thinking he will get 970lb bulls as well. But the real cow guys and gals know, those bulls even as a fetus were marked for a catalog and really have no real world benefit to commercial cow folks. You always state stuff like,"who wouldn't want so and so SAV bull in their herd?". No one whose running cattle on range in Oregon would ever want America out on his herd. First off he probably couldn't feed himself, second he would deteriorate into a shell of what he was, no way he could cover range or cows.

I find it very interesting that you say that.

RIght now, I'm working on getting 5 bulls that I can send out to the Midland test in the near future. All will be SAV genetics. Instead of folklore that they will "fall apart" or cannot make it, we will see for sure. I'm not too proud to say "I'm was wrong" if those bulls fall on their face, and don't make the cut, but what if they do kick azz? What if they truly perform? Will you eat your words? Probably not, real-world data from Midland could not even change your mind.

What If I send 5 International sons out there and they perform, and perform well.

Just so you know, and I have said it before, SAV is only a portion of what we breed to. There are at least two bulls from Hoover Angus that I am quite fond of as well.

Who knows, they might fail miserably, if so, I will probably reconsider what I breed to, but if they shine bright, what then?

As for Herefords, I have NOTHING against them, and I think they have a lot of merit for beef. I happen to like Angus better because I like data, and Angus rules on data, and branding of course. Boyd's which is about 10 miles from me is having a sale in a few days, and there will be Hereford in that sale, super nice ones at that. My question for you, if you are familiar with Boyd's, would they have been as successful as they are if they had not moved to Angus many years back? Do you think that if they had stuck with Herefords, from a purely financial standpoint, would they have the haul that they get from Angus? I seriously doubt they would even come close. They made a fortune moving to Angus.

Also, we had some really nice Hereford cattle on our farm before we decided to go with Angus in 1967.

You ask questions that have absolutely nothing to do with any topic whatsoever. I like Boyd a lot, especially back to New Day. For those of you who thought the angus industry started with SAV, New Day's sire New Trend had a major impact on the breed and his dam was the prototypical dam of her time. Do you really have that big of a comprehension issue or simply like to see your own words? No one said anything about the breed coming to an end and as for your test, once again that doesn't tell us those bulls are range or herd worthy, just means they do well in a feed lot, which we already know they do, from how SAV raises them. Your analogy is horrible, here's what your trying to present, to prove SAV bulls are range worthy, I'm going to confine five of them to a feed bunk and prove through excess feed and high nutrition, these bulls can perform in a herd or on range. So if your bulls do perform amazingly well, cut the nuts off the next set, so you can have amazing feed lot steers. But if you are raising herd bulls, raise herd bulls. Quit chasing rabbit holes and writing to yourself, no one said anything about Herefords, except a trend they are seeing commercially. I try to give you a pass, but sometimes you don't know when to quit.

Have you seen some of my non SAV bulls? My bulls from the Apex Kingston son or Crook Mt. Black Cedar?

They have what you seem to like, high CED, HP, CEM, DMI and $EN, but no $B

The type you forget about all winter because they need nothing.

Problem is they never put on serious pounds. I know YOU know what I'm talking about.

If your goal is just to have cattle that survive the range but perform nothing else, then why not consider this bull that I have available at the moment? He is a low maintenance dream.

http://bit.ly/2tTvzRy

His BW, DMI, $EN, HP, and scrotal have to interest you. If those traits are all that matters.

 

[Rydero]

Here are some interesting local facts. Yesterday Thomas Angus sold 199 bulls. Slightly more fall yearlings than spring yearlings. The fall yearlings brought about $1,000 a head more than the spring calves. The bulls averaged $3,627. The day before Harrell Hereford had their sale. They are also located in Baker City. They sold 176 bulls. Their average was $5076. These are both long time established reputation breeders. A lot of commercial cattlemen after years of breeding Angus into their herd are going to Hereford bulls. Hy-bred vigor still works. Baldie calves sell at the top. I have a friend just north of here (750 cows) who says his Hereford bulls go to work. His Angus bulls spend the first two weeks fighting. One of my neighbors (400 cows all black) has 10 Angus and 10 Hereford bulls in his bull pasture. Every now and then when driving by has Angus bulls are fighting. I have never seen his Hereford bulls fighting.
This time of the year a person could go to an Angus bull sale nearly everyday. But how many good Hereford breeders are out there? The something that is brewing might be a lean away from breeding straight Angus by the commercial guys. Food for thought or discussion.

This is pretty much what I was pointing to as well. I was buying heifers a couple years ago and the number of straight blacks passing through the ring was immense. Having a primarily black herd myself I thought this isn`t good. Since there`s so much selection the buyers can pick and choose what they want knowing there`s lots of black coming later. It`s basic supply and demand - lots of supply and demand goes down. I remembered I had bought some Black Angus x Simmental cows a few years before bred Charolais and the calves turned out fantastic. Bought one Char bull right away and swapped out the black ones as they aged etc. Everything bred Char now and weaning weights are up and I`ve hit the top of the market a couple times which I never did before. Can`t see going back. Chars may not always be in vogue but they`re consistently heavier off the same cows.

Angus is going nowhere, there`s no fear of that. It`s an extremely important breed. 95% of my cows have Angus in them and I wouldn`t change that. Why a commercial cow calf producer would straight breed cattle is beyond my understanding. I apologize if I`m offending anyone saying that but the science is clear and definitive, now the market is saying the same thing at least it is where I`m sitting.

The notion of running a whole bunch of little herds to avoid bulls fighting is ridiculous. When you`re in a low margin business like cow-calf expenses need to be controlled not multiplied.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Creek,

Here is a bull that I have available right now, he is the type you describe. His sire was Crook Mt. Black Cedar 3870, from Frei Angus ranch.

http://bit.ly/2UoOhfv

He descends from Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P, which if I am correct comes from a ranch that is grass only, with zero supplementation.

http://bit.ly/2H2c7up

My bull has some of the best feet I've ever seen, he could easily handle some really rough terrain

Are you interested? He fits your criteria to a tee? His 1/2 brother brought $6k in a sale last year.

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