Replacement Heifer Gain Target ?

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That is a very vague article. I'm not debating your methods but it seems to me that article is just saying there is no need to supplement your heifers trying to get them to a higher weight. Its not saying to breed them earlier because they can raise a calf at a lower percentage of full grown weight.

The article is also addressing one cost factor, of that cow, at one specific time in its life. Its far from addressing the profitability or health of that cow over its whole life.

Breeding heifers off of weight is a slippery slope. Although nutrition plays a role in development their is no replacement for time.

How long have you been breeding heifer that young?

ddd75":1dkxu9jj said:
oh look what I found..


In this new era of elevated feed costs (both grain and hay), developing heifers from weaning to breeding involves a substantial investment. And, if heifers developed this winter fail to re-breed after their first calf next summer, much of the cost associated with developing them will not be recovered.

To avoid non-pregnant 2- and 3-year old cows at the end of the breeding season, producers are considering altering the nutritional development of heifers between weaning and first breeding. One of the quickest ways to maximize reproductive performance is to provide more nutrients. However, based on recently-reported data, this is probably not the most economical solution.

A New Approach
Historically, heifers have been developed to weigh approximately 60-65% of their mature body weight at breeding time (about 13-14 months old), in an effort to increase pregnancy rate. This practice has been based largely on evidence that: 1) increased energy intake during development improves heifer pregnancy rate, and 2) heifers developed to a body weight less than 65% take longer to re-breed after calving as a 2-year old. Yet, some argue that increasing the amount of feed provided (which increases costs substantially) in order to increase pregnancy rate leads to a long-term cycle of elevating costs and declining profitability on a cattle operation.

Several researchers have begun to explore the possibility of developing heifers at a slower rate, which ultimately leads to weights at first breeding that are lighter than historical averages. Nebraska research led by Dr. Rick Funston compared the long-term reproductive performance of two groups of crossbred heifers developed to 53% (low gain) and 58% (high gain) of mature body weight. The heifers were developed on identical rations (hay, wheat middlings, corn, and supplement), except for a difference in corn to reflect the increased gain in the "high gain" heifers. Interestingly, there was no difference between the two groups for pregnancy rates through the fourth breeding season (Table 1).

An economic evaluation was conducted by University of Nebraska researchers to follow-up on the reduced gain concept. The above data were used, in addition to data from an experiment by Creighton (also in Nebraska) where two development systems were compared: low gain (to 50% of mature weight, prior to breeding for 60 days) vs. high gain (to 55% of mature weight, prior to breeding for 45 days). Similarly, the low gain heifers had a pregnancy rate of 87% in a 60-day season compared to a pregnancy rate of 89% in a 45-day breeding season in the high gain heifers.

Using estimated feed costs and cattle prices over an 11-year period, the "low gain" heifers cost $27 per bred heifer less than the "high gain" heifers (Table 2), when data were averaged over the 11-year period. Average calf birth date, weight, difficulty, and loss were similar for both treatments, as well as calf gain and weaning weight
. It should be noted that this analysis was conducted prior to the recent hike in grain and hay prices. Thus, it's possible that cost savings could be even larger today.



Looks like 50 - 55% target weight.. I was RIGHT ON.. These are LOW weight heifers. I'm sure it would be even more difference if they used low weight 50% vs. an average 65% weight.

Looks like maybe the teacher needs to go back to school. :nod:

$$$$$ in your pocket for the entire life of that cow.


BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! goes the dynamite..
 
The entire line of thinking used to be 65%+ full grown body weight. This is saying 50-55% is the new target.

How is that not the same thing as breeding them earlier?


like I was saying before.. In sheep, the earlier they breed, the more lambs they have over a lifetime. The live longer and are better breeders. I think the same holds true for cattle.

I have been breeding heifers like this for about 6 years.
 
ddd75":z5goeplg said:
The entire line of thinking used to be 65%+ full grown body weight. This is saying 50-55% is the new target.

How is that not the same thing as breeding them earlier?


like I was saying before.. In sheep, the earlier they breed, the more lambs they have over a lifetime. The live longer and are better breeders. I think the same holds true for cattle.

I have been breeding heifers like this for about 6 years.

So if I feed a heifer as much as possible from birth to get it's weight up it's ready to breed at 50-55% regardless of age?
 
Over the years I can think of 7 heifers that were bred before 10 mos that for whatever reason I didn't lute. 5/7 were sold due to not breeding back after the 1st calf. My ratio for on time breed back for heifers that were bred at 13-15 mos typically exceeds 90%. My herd may not be as fertile as some but my experience is that 13-15 mos is as early as a heifer needs to be bred for long term success.
 
Brute 23":1ta9jacb said:
ddd75":1ta9jacb said:
The entire line of thinking used to be 65%+ full grown body weight. This is saying 50-55% is the new target.

How is that not the same thing as breeding them earlier?


like I was saying before.. In sheep, the earlier they breed, the more lambs they have over a lifetime. The live longer and are better breeders. I think the same holds true for cattle.

I have been breeding heifers like this for about 6 years.

So if I feed a heifer as much as possible from birth to get it's weight up it's ready to breed at 50-55% regardless of age?


I do not feed my heifers anything but grass and grass hay.

Where did I say anything about shoving a bunch of feed to them to get them up to a target weight to make them ready to breed?

come on.
 
ddd75":299kzw4z said:
Brute 23":299kzw4z said:
ddd75":299kzw4z said:
The entire line of thinking used to be 65%+ full grown body weight. This is saying 50-55% is the new target.

How is that not the same thing as breeding them earlier?


like I was saying before.. In sheep, the earlier they breed, the more lambs they have over a lifetime. The live longer and are better breeders. I think the same holds true for cattle.

I have been breeding heifers like this for about 6 years.

So if I feed a heifer as much as possible from birth to get it's weight up it's ready to breed at 50-55% regardless of age?


I do not feed my heifers anything but grass and grass hay.

Where did I say anything about shoving a bunch of feed to them to get them up to a target weight to make them ready to breed?

come on.

Sorry man but your philosophy is faulty.

One of these days you will learn why the rest of the world does not breed that early. All it will take is one lost calf, one bad year, and any thing you think you gained will be lost. At 7 years you are far from seeing the effects yet.

Good luck, some one has to be the test dummy. :tiphat:

... and find a better article to back you theory because that one has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
 
Thanks brute but I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval from you or anyone else.

Didn't your family help you make your operation or are you just running on family land?
 
ddd75":266jt063 said:
Thanks brute but I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval from you or anyone else.

Didn't your family help you make your operation or are you just running on family land?

My family has land that they have ran cattle on for generations. They have not done any thing to help me other than offer up free advice and a place to log hours upon hours of free labor.... and I appreciate every bit of it. I have managed the cattle and properties for a man and his wife for 15 years along with taking care of a couple other peoples' cattle. I personally own 7 cows, 4 bull calves, 3 heifers calves, and 1/2 a bull at the present time. I acquired my first 2 heifers, 2 years ago as a gift from the man and his wife. I purchased the other 5 about a year later. I am 30 years old. :kid: I do not pretend, or intend, to be some thing I am not.

People are just trying to be honest with you and make sure new people understand the context when they read what you are doing. I truly hope you revolutionize the cattle business. We need all the help we can get. :tiphat:
 
Brute 23":1t7xgnlq said:
ddd75":1t7xgnlq said:
Thanks brute but I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval from you or anyone else.

Didn't your family help you make your operation or are you just running on family land?

My family has land that they have ran cattle on for generations. They have not done any thing to help me other than offer up free advice and a place to log hours upon hours of free labor.... and I appreciate every bit of it. I have managed the cattle and properties for a man and his wife for 15 years along with taking care of a couple other peoples' cattle. I personally own 7 cows, 4 bull calves, 3 heifers calves, and 1/2 a bull at the present time. I acquired my first 2 heifers, 2 years ago as a gift from the man and his wife. I purchased the other 5 about a year later. I am 30 years old. :kid: I do not pretend, or intend, to be some thing I am not.

People are just trying to be honest with you and make sure new people understand the context when they read what you are doing. I truly hope you revolutionize the cattle business. We need all the help we can get. :tiphat:


You'll do. ;-)

We started with nothing and have most of that left. Added a few things along the way. We've never not looked at an opportunity, some of them are worth pursuing.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3t17nrn3 said:
The article is saying you can breed at a lower target WEIGHT, not a younger age.
Exactly and if she happens to be a bit small she will most likely always be a small framed cow.
 
Brute 23":e99dv0hw said:
ddd75":e99dv0hw said:
Thanks brute but I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval from you or anyone else.

Didn't your family help you make your operation or are you just running on family land?

My family has land that they have ran cattle on for generations. They have not done any thing to help me other than offer up free advice and a place to log hours upon hours of free labor.... and I appreciate every bit of it. I have managed the cattle and properties for a man and his wife for 15 years along with taking care of a couple other peoples' cattle. I personally own 7 cows, 4 bull calves, 3 heifers calves, and 1/2 a bull at the present time. I acquired my first 2 heifers, 2 years ago as a gift from the man and his wife. I purchased the other 5 about a year later. I am 30 years old. :kid: I do not pretend, or intend, to be some thing I am not.

People are just trying to be honest with you and make sure new people understand the context when they read what you are doing. I truly hope you revolutionize the cattle business. We need all the help we can get. :tiphat:
Dang Brute, I'm gonna have to go buy a couple of cows. Can't have you owning more cows than me. :lol: :lol2:

Sure glad we got "Mr. Know it All" to fall back on." I mean he's made lots of money doing everything wrong.
 
TexasBred":23cgdukx said:
Brute 23":23cgdukx said:
ddd75":23cgdukx said:
Thanks brute but I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval from you or anyone else.

Didn't your family help you make your operation or are you just running on family land?

My family has land that they have ran cattle on for generations. They have not done any thing to help me other than offer up free advice and a place to log hours upon hours of free labor.... and I appreciate every bit of it. I have managed the cattle and properties for a man and his wife for 15 years along with taking care of a couple other peoples' cattle. I personally own 7 cows, 4 bull calves, 3 heifers calves, and 1/2 a bull at the present time. I acquired my first 2 heifers, 2 years ago as a gift from the man and his wife. I purchased the other 5 about a year later. I am 30 years old. :kid: I do not pretend, or intend, to be some thing I am not.

People are just trying to be honest with you and make sure new people understand the context when they read what you are doing. I truly hope you revolutionize the cattle business. We need all the help we can get. :tiphat:
Dang Brute, I'm gonna have to go buy a couple of cows. Can't have you owning more cows than me. :lol: :lol2:

Sure glad we got "Mr. Know it All" to fall back on." I mean he's made lots of money doing everything wrong.
All hat and no cattle, TB your wisdom has helped many around here, if you could only get CB to listen he might even learn a thing or two also.
 
TexasBred":3bvcmsj9 said:
Brute 23":3bvcmsj9 said:
ddd75":3bvcmsj9 said:
Thanks brute but I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval from you or anyone else.

Didn't your family help you make your operation or are you just running on family land?

My family has land that they have ran cattle on for generations. They have not done any thing to help me other than offer up free advice and a place to log hours upon hours of free labor.... and I appreciate every bit of it. I have managed the cattle and properties for a man and his wife for 15 years along with taking care of a couple other peoples' cattle. I personally own 7 cows, 4 bull calves, 3 heifers calves, and 1/2 a bull at the present time. I acquired my first 2 heifers, 2 years ago as a gift from the man and his wife. I purchased the other 5 about a year later. I am 30 years old. :kid: I do not pretend, or intend, to be some thing I am not.

People are just trying to be honest with you and make sure new people understand the context when they read what you are doing. I truly hope you revolutionize the cattle business. We need all the help we can get. :tiphat:
Dang Brute, I'm gonna have to go buy a couple of cows. Can't have you owning more cows than me. :lol: :lol2:

Sure glad we got "Mr. Know it All" to fall back on." I mean he's made lots of money doing everything wrong.

I guess if I'm doing it wrong, I'll keep doing it wrong.

no wonder you people say "no money to be made in cattle"

we have people with 6 cows trying to tell everyone what to do / think. OMG LUTE IT !! !

OMG LUTE IT !!! It's not 1000 lbs.. OMG LUTE IT!! it was bred by its daddy! OMG LUTE IT!!!!

GEt out the CAKE AND TUBS!! I didn't see that heifer eat that tub today.. OMG LUTE IT !!!!

I need my 45.00 bag of mineral for my non-profit cows.. I didn't see it comsume 4 oz today after I measured it with my measuring cup.. OMG LUTE IT! ! ! ! !

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:
 
ddd - you are over the top - LOL
Some people make what they think is good money with no management, that's great.
But, on this forum, we try to emphasize the "right" way of doing things. There are many "right" ways. What's good for one farm is not good for another.
I don't feed CAKE or TUBS or CUBES or GRAIN to my cows, but I do feed top notch mineral ($30/bag), and I will venture to guess I can make more profit (sale price less yearly cost of cow) off 1 weaned heifer calf than you make off of 8 calves. I am not trying to brag, just trying to put things in perspective when you say " I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval".
Like I said, profit can be made, it's a matter of what method.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2c81z6y5 said:
ddd - you are over the top - LOL
Some people make what they think is good money with no management, that's great.
But, on this forum, we try to emphasize the "right" way of doing things. There are many "right" ways. What's good for one farm is not good for another.
I don't feed CAKE or TUBS or CUBES or GRAIN to my cows, but I do feed top notch mineral ($30/bag), and I will venture to guess I can make more profit (sale price less yearly cost of cow) off 1 weaned heifer calf than you make off of 8 calves. I am not trying to brag, just trying to put things in perspective when you say " I've made a lot of money with cattle and don't need any advice or approval".
Like I said, profit can be made, it's a matter of what method.

in 2015 I had 2 checks in my hand totaling $230,000.00 from cattle, most of that pure profit.

If you make good money with your cattle, I'm very happy for you.
 

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