Questions on Building Fence (cattle).

[TexasRancher]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here...I've read a lot in here about how the gang builds barb-wire fencing and I have some questions.
First my plan...will be fencing around a 30.52 acres rectanglar, flat land...will be using 6'-6" T-Posts, 12 foot spacing, 6 foot stays, leaving 55" above ground, 5 strands, starting at 12" from ground, 10",10",10", and 10" ending at 52".
My question being the main weight bearing corner posts....what are your thoughts on using trees? I have existing tree lines with more than a few great 12" to 18" trees to pull around. Secondly, if you have used trees, as corner posts, what have you shored-up against the tree (to level the edge)... pressure treated lumber, steel poles, to keep the tree healthy? Do you have to level the edge?
You won't hurt my feelings Hoss if you're telling me I'm being stubborn or too lazy...remember, I'll be having to cut out trees in my way and driving posts into tree roots to keep the fence line straight while passing through the trees on opposite ends of the land. Thanks, Mark

 

[gerardplauche]

I stapled barb wire directly to trees on one side of my back pasture. The trees were large oaks and since then have swallowed the barbed wire. The trees are still healthy as ever and I did nothing to support them. Now that I think about it, that is probably the best section of fence I have up! :shock:

 

[SRBeef]

I would not use live growing trees as fence posts and especially not corner posts if I wanted a long lasting fence. The tree will swallow the wire in just a few years. The swallowed wire tends to rust and break and is impossible to tighten. If you are looking for a temporary fence then using trees is attractive.

Personally since you are going to have heavy equipment in there anyway to clear much of the fence line I would recommend doing it right and put in true posts on the corners especially where they can be braced correctly. Fixing a fence in 5 years is more work than putting it in correctly the first time. Good luck.

 

[gerardplauche]

I would not use live growing trees as fence posts and especially not corner posts if I wanted a long lasting fence. The tree will swallow the wire in just a few years. The swallowed wire tends to rust and break and is impossible to tighten. If you are looking for a temporary fence then using trees is attractive.

Personally since you are going to have heavy equipment in there anyway to clear much of the fence line I would recommend doing it right and put in true posts on the corners especially where they can be braced correctly. Fixing a fence in 5 years is more work than putting it in correctly the first time. Good luck.

This is true about the wire rusting. I never had wire break on me yet. Also, keep in mind that these trees could never be logged if they have metal in them. This may not be an issue for you, but it was concern for me. I do make repairs to this fence, but it is not more often than any other part of the pasture. Cattle will try to eat through the fence no matter what the wire is connected to (except for electric fences :shock: )

 

[backhoeboogie]

Nothing wooden for me. If you get burned out one time in a wild fire, you'll understand why I don't use wood.

Drive those T-Posts with a tractor bucket. Cut yourself a piece of pipe 55 inches long since you know that is your finished post height. Slide the pipe over the T-Post onto the spade and push it in with the front bucket until there is nothing showing but pipe. Then slide it back off and onto the next post. If you hit a root or piece of gravel, the T-post cannot bend with the pipe around it. Two people can drive 85 posts in an hour and a half like that. We just drove that many with the backhoe front bucket on May 20th. The hardest part was loading/unloading the posts out of the truck into the front bucket (piece of cake).

 

[bandit80]

Ever staple or tie wire to a tree and then have the tree blow over in a storm?? No thank you. Learned the hard way on that one and got the shirt to prove it.

I would not recommend using a tree as your corner. In my parts we used hedge for posts, minimum 12" diameter for corners. 18-24" are better. Dig a hole at least 3 ft deep, I set mine 5 ft deep. Then tamp it in til you can't tamp no more. Then you have a corner post that will probably out last you.

A 5 barb wire fence done right will last a very long time, and will hold back any cattle you want on the farm

 

[Busterz]

If you wrap the wire around the tree you might kill it and then you are tied on to a dead rotting tree. You'd probably be better off cutting the tree down and using the trunk for a post.

A cemented pipe corner with braces would probably be best. Hedge posts with pipe braces would be #2. Some type of creosote post would be my third choice.

 

[TexasBred]

If you wrap the wire around the tree you might kill it and then you are tied on to a dead rotting tree. You'd probably be better off cutting the tree down and using the trunk for a post.

A cemented pipe corner with braces would probably be best. Hedge posts with pipe braces would be #2. Some type of creosote post would be my third choice.

Have "L shaped" corners on all my fence made of 4 inch pipe with welded bracing 4 ft in the ground in concrete. Every 4th post on the fence line is a 2 1/2" pipe in concrete.

 

[TexasRancher]

If you wrap the wire around the tree you might kill it and then you are tied on to a dead rotting tree. You'd probably be better off cutting the tree down and using the trunk for a post.

A cemented pipe corner with braces would probably be best. Hedge posts with pipe braces would be #2. Some type of creosote post would be my third choice.

Appreciate all your responses...Ok, I'm not completely sold on fencing to trees on the corners...but, I'm not sold on corner "L's" and welding/bolting either (while I know it's one of the best methods)....For me, I'm seeking something easier... a single pier corner system. It's easier for me to dig a large single hole...in lieu of three holes for each corner post. What if I dig a 5 foot hole, then using 6" or 8" or 10" or 12" diameter (you tell me the size)...thickwalled pipe and sink them 5 feet filling the pipe with concrete....also pouring some base footing 16" wide and 6" to 10" deep with concrete too....would that hold...equal or close in strength to a welded "L" or hedge L system?

Second question...if I'm able to design a single pipe corner system....should the fencing run off (plumb line) the outside or inside of the pipe. It appears the "inside" would offer some benefits...but I don't know what they would be. Anyone? thanks

 

[TexasBred]

If you can do it then go for it. Seems you've already got your mind made it. It's gonna be pretty labor intensive as well as expensive. The "L" corners have worked well for me....no leaning post and no sagging fence.

 

[Busterz]

If you wrap the wire around the tree you might kill it and then you are tied on to a dead rotting tree. You'd probably be better off cutting the tree down and using the trunk for a post.

A cemented pipe corner with braces would probably be best. Hedge posts with pipe braces would be #2. Some type of creosote post would be my third choice.

Appreciate all your responses...Ok, I'm not completely sold on fencing to trees on the corners...but, I'm not sold on corner "L's" and welding/bolting either (while I know it's one of the best methods)....For me, I'm seeking something easier... a single pier corner system. It's easier for me to dig a large single hole...in lieu of three holes for each corner post. What if I dig a 5 foot hole, then using 6" or 8" or 10" or 12" diameter (you tell me the size)...thickwalled pipe and sink them 5 feet filling the pipe with concrete....also pouring some base footing 16" wide and 6" to 10" deep with concrete too....would that hold...equal or close in strength to a welded "L" or hedge L system?

Second question...if I'm able to design a single pipe corner system....should the fencing run off (plumb line) the outside or inside of the pipe. It appears the "inside" would offer some benefits...but I don't know what they would be. Anyone? thanks

Maybe. I've never seen anyone use a single corner post (which might tell you something). It would have to be pretty deep and pretty solid and the soil would have to not heave or move very much (if your soil is clay it may not work very well as it would expand and contract).

You have to remember you are going to be pulling your wire tight against these corners. And then they will remain under tension.

If your are going to do it I would probably go with at least an 8" pipe and I'd put more of it in the ground than whats sticking out (so like a 60" deep hole if you want 55" sticking out.) I don't know if filling it with concrete will do much for you. But you'll want some kind of cap since its pipe. Filling in around it with concrete.

Changing these, if they don't work, will be a collossal pain in the you know what, and they probably still won't be as good as a pipe (2 3/4") L shaped brace or even a braced up hedge post.

 

[dun]

With the single post you might want to look into floating braces

 

[poorboy]

I will usually always put an available tree as my corner. I have only had a few problems so far. One being the 15ga ht wire will get eaten up by hickorys in about 6 years give or take. The second problem is that one tree that is also a line tree and has been nailed into for over a hundred years finally got hit by lightening and a little is dying each year and falling out. And lastly, when using them as a corner post some species don't tolerate being girlded as a terminal end. In this case I have found using a couple of 2x4 treated boards nailed on will help with the prolong the death of the tree .

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hello everyone,

I'm new here...I've read a lot in here about how the gang builds barb-wire fencing and I have some questions.
First my plan...will be fencing around a 30.52 acres rectanglar, flat land...will be using 6'-6" T-Posts, 12 foot spacing, 6 foot stays, leaving 55" above ground, 5 strands, starting at 12" from ground, 10",10",10", and 10" ending at 52".
My question being the main weight bearing corner posts....what are your thoughts on using trees? I have existing tree lines with more than a few great 12" to 18" trees to pull around. Secondly, if you have used trees, as corner posts, what have you shored-up against the tree (to level the edge)... pressure treated lumber, steel poles, to keep the tree healthy? Do you have to level the edge?
You won't hurt my feelings Hoss if you're telling me I'm being stubborn or too lazy...remember, I'll be having to cut out trees in my way and driving posts into tree roots to keep the fence line straight while passing through the trees on opposite ends of the land. Thanks, Mark

Trees provide a lot of post here from the fence line to the corners. The good Lord provided them and I use them I figure he is helping me save money for a corner post where there isn't a tree. The only problem using trees is a bad storm can tear up lots of fence, but here there are so many trees its going to get tore up anyway.

 

[grannysoo]

If you're not bracing your corners, make sure you use plenty of concrete. You'll need it.

 

[backhoeboogie]

If you're not bracing your corners, make sure you use plenty of concrete. You'll need it.

Either that or else rework it every six months or so.

 

[ToddFarmsInc]

lots of good reading on this thread. It interests me because lately I've been replacing a lot of fences where the wire is old, and it has just gotten so rusted, and brittle that if you lean against it, it just snaps.


My grandpa, and great grandpa put in a lot of the fences that I am replacing. It has lasted 70-100 years quite nicely. They just used hedge (osage orange) posts, of various sizes, and wire and staples. Back in the day, metal "T" posts cost money, so they were seldom used. They have held up really well, even with regular pasture burning, but you do have to be careful, because you can burn them off at ground level. What's interesing, is that the posts I'm pulling out, have suffered the most rot right at ground level. The constant composting of plant material, and the moisture at that level is what rots out the wood the fastest. You pull the post out, and it will be fine underground a couple feet, but right at the surface level, it will be rotted nearly in two.

As for just stapeling the fence to trees. That works great, but it's also true that the tree's natural sap will be corrosive on the wire, and if it breaks around the tree anywhere, it will be right against the tree and then you will have to cut the wire on the other side of the tree, and splice it around the tree and restaple it back to the tree. A process you will probably have to repete evey 15 years or so. (so if you are in your 70's what the heck, you probably won't have to mess with it again. ;-) )

My dad also put in a lot of fence some years ago. He used all "T" posts on some of his fences, he had the money to buy the posts, and they were quick and easy to pop into the ground. But,they currently are in about the worst shape. The reason why, is because the cows constantly lean on the fence in one direction, and they just lean over with time, far worse than wood posts. I find that one wooden post in about every 6 will hold the fence upright much better than just solid "T" posts. Also wood posts do a better job of holding the wire up or down over terreses, and washouts. Lastly, the solid "T" post fences that my dad had put in 30 years ago are much shorter than they were when he put them in. The years of the added weight of ice in the winter time, and the wind and the cattle has cause those "T" posts to continue to sink into the ground a good foot or so lower than they were organially set at. In fact some fences have sunk down to the point the bottom wire is sitting on the ground.

All new fences we are currently installing will have T posts, and wood posts too.

 

[Arkieman]

They just used hedge (osage orange) posts, of various sizes, and wire and staples. Back in the day, metal "T" posts cost money, so they were seldom used. They have held up really well, even with regular pasture burning, but you do have to be careful, because you can burn them off at ground level. What's interesing, is that the posts I'm pulling out, have suffered the most rot right at ground level. The constant composting of plant material, and the moisture at that level is what rots out the wood the fastest. You pull the post out, and it will be fine underground a couple feet, but right at the surface level, it will be rotted nearly in two.

I got a buddy that would kill for those underground pieces of osage orange (he's a wood turner)

 

[backhoeboogie]

I got a buddy that would kill for those underground pieces of osage orange (he's a wood turner)

I was just pushing it into piles along with the cedar and burning it. Then I saw the prices on eBay for little pieces of it. I have a few dozen logs curing right now. Once it dries, I am not about to put my chainsaw on it. We call it bodark around these parts. I leave it growing along the fences.

 

[TexasBred]

I got a buddy that would kill for those underground pieces of osage orange (he's a wood turner)

I was just pushing it into piles along with the cedar and burning it. Then I saw the prices on eBay for little pieces of it. I have a few dozen logs curing right now. Once it dries, I am not about to put my chainsaw on it. We call it bodark around these parts. I leave it growing along the fences.

Boogie...same as "horse apple" isn't it?? Yellow as gold inside and last forever.