Question on Proper Creep-Cube Feeding to Increase Profits.

[TexasRancher]

Hello gang,

You're all wonderful, thank you...I'm reading all your posts and logging them into my files. I'm indebted to you all. I have been reading articles and pushing the envelope on the cattle-meat-steer business. My next question is in regards to creep-cube feeding of steers.

I'm seeking the point of "maximum benefit" where the feed ratio increases the weight but I'm not "going past" the usefullness of the feed. Another words I would rather be on the low-side of the creep - cube costs and stay on the low side of the cattle weight gain (for fear of wasting feed $'s). I hope all this makes sense to the experts- in what I'm trying to do. Assume Angus steers. What exactly do you guys do in feed (in pounds or ounces) per steer per time table...that's beyond the improved pasture land. What do you do to feed your cattle (suppliment their weight) but keep costs down?

 

[bigbull338]

to finish steers out you want them out on grass from spring to fall.an then on winter pasture till spring.that way you can put the min in feed in them.an finish them on grass.

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

I have not found any feed supplement that I can use that puts on weight that makes any dollar sense except good all grass. I do supplement with mollassess during the winter months and of course hay.

 

[Txwalt]

I'm paying $7.80 for cubes. I'm real stingy with them too.

Walt

 

[ToddFarmsInc]

...
I'm seeking the point of "maximum benefit" where the feed ratio increases the weight but I'm not "going past" the usefullness of the feed. Another words I would rather be on the low-side of the creep - cube costs and stay on the low side of the cattle weight gain (for fear of wasting feed $'s). I hope all this makes sense to the experts- in what I'm trying to do. Assume Angus steers. What exactly do you guys do in feed (in pounds or ounces) per steer per time table...that's beyond the improved pasture land. What do you do to feed your cattle (suppliment their weight) but keep costs down?...

You're not an engineer are you? :compute: (just thought I'd ask. ;-) )

It all depends on what you are wanting to do with these animals. If your goal is to just get them fat as fast as you can to ship them off to market, then you will be shoveling in feed rations to bump up their caloric intake, and proten content. Chopped silage, feed supliments, ground grain, creep cube will pump up their bulk fast. But it aint cheep. You can get to that size eventually with grass only. If you are wanting a nice lean animal, you can't beat grass fed. (this is good to know if you plan on butchering for yourself, a corn fed cow will have a lot more "marbeling" and fat content.) I just raise cow calf and sell my yearlings off so I can't comment much on feeding out animals. I do know that from time to time when I feed out heffers for my self, I will keep them on grass and then feed them out ground grains rations along with their hay for about three months or so before hauling them to the meat locker.

 

[Brandonm22]

We are treading into territory ($6 corn -$12 beans) that NOBODY has any experience in dealing with. Trial and error is how most of us develop a supplement program. As expensive as that approach could be now, it may well be worth you bringing in an animal nutritionist too evaluate your available forages, set your weight endpoint, evaluate whether a creep feeding program pays in your unique forage/genetics situation, develop a seasonal cow supplement program, and prepare a yearly budget for purchased hay, minerals, grain, and/or other supplements.

 

[gabby]

Don't quit your day job!! ;-) You're swimming upstream just like the rest of us. I don't feed any grain, and only enough cubes to make sure the fat girls like me. Had good results with Marshall ryegrass this winter and spring but it was on harrowed ground. Will plant more of it this fall to reduce hay consumption and make up for drought-reduced hay crop. Never had any luck with sod seeded ryegrass.

 

[mnmtranching]

Your on track, put as much gain with the grass as possible. Still, you don't want the cattle to get to old on you. Price per pound live will drop fast. If your going to sell them by the half or quarter not so bad.
The best age for slaughter cattle is right around 15 months for size and quality. And the best beef has at least a couple months on corn. Yup :shock: it's going to cost to feed cattle.

 

[TexasRancher]

You're not an engineer are you? :compute: (just thought I'd ask. ;-) )

It all depends on what you are wanting to do with these animals. If your goal is to just get them fat as fast as you can to ship them off to market, then you will be shoveling in feed rations to bump up their caloric intake, and proten content. Chopped silage, feed supliments, ground grain, creep cube will pump up their bulk fast. But it aint cheep. You can get to that size eventually with grass only. If you are wanting a nice lean animal, you can't beat grass fed. (this is good to know if you plan on butchering for yourself, a corn fed cow will have a lot more "marbeling" and fat content.) I just raise cow calf and sell my yearlings off so I can't comment much on feeding out animals. I do know that from time to time when I feed out heffers for my self, I will keep them on grass and then feed them out ground grains rations along with their hay for about three months or so before hauling them to the meat locker.

Interesting, correct guess...is it that obvious?...I am an engineer (EE)....we do cattle too :tiphat: I'm thinking what I'll do is test a set of steers for 15 months (no suppliments, just grass), and test another group with suppliments for 15 months...weigh and sell them, do the calculation, and if the creep/cubes/grains cattle are not condusive for profits...then grass it is. I heard horror stories on what happens at "feeders" where all the cattle can't move....mine will have to herd out and forage for their food...they'll be happier herding too....and happy cattle make for tasty beef!

Even Engineer's need to quit their day job (someday) and have some fun too...the lowest form of land development is ranching, maybe farming. take care.

 

[PennBranch]

Creep Feeding Calculator http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca/app19/calc/l ... psheet.jsp

 

[IluvABbeef]

You're not an engineer are you? :compute: (just thought I'd ask. ;-) )

It all depends on what you are wanting to do with these animals. If your goal is to just get them fat as fast as you can to ship them off to market, then you will be shoveling in feed rations to bump up their caloric intake, and proten content. Chopped silage, feed supliments, ground grain, creep cube will pump up their bulk fast. But it aint cheep. You can get to that size eventually with grass only. If you are wanting a nice lean animal, you can't beat grass fed. (this is good to know if you plan on butchering for yourself, a corn fed cow will have a lot more "marbeling" and fat content.) I just raise cow calf and sell my yearlings off so I can't comment much on feeding out animals. I do know that from time to time when I feed out heffers for my self, I will keep them on grass and then feed them out ground grains rations along with their hay for about three months or so before hauling them to the meat locker.

Interesting, correct guess...is it that obvious?...I am an engineer (EE)....we do cattle too :tiphat: I'm thinking what I'll do is test a set of steers for 15 months (no suppliments, just grass), and test another group with suppliments for 15 months...weigh and sell them, do the calculation, and if the creep/cubes/grains cattle are not condusive for profits...then grass it is. I heard horror stories on what happens at "feeders" where all the cattle can't move....mine will have to herd out and forage for their food...they'll be happier herding too....and happy cattle make for tasty beef!

Even Engineer's need to quit their day job (someday) and have some fun too...the lowest form of land development is ranching, maybe farming. take care.

15 months?? If you do the calculations right, you buy feeder steers at 5-6 months, then feed them up for 12 months, then sell them. But that's just for backgrounding them. I guess 15 months isn't all that bad for feeding them up to slaughter. I have experience with feeder steers, 16+ years of it. We bought the steer calves at 5 or 6 months of age, right off their mommas, in the fall (depending on the time we get them, sometimes it could be in the middle of winter (december), sometimes early fall (i.e., september). They are fed ad libitum (free choice) alfalfa/grass hay, and barley silage for the rest of the winter/fall and winter into early spring. We don't measure how much feed they get per day when feeding hay and silage, because like I said they are fed free choice. With the silage they put on weight pretty good - no feed cubes necessary. All the supplement they get is a mineral block...although I would suggest stay away from the mineral block, just feed them the mineral that comes in a bag. Then come late May - mid June they are put on pasture with just the salt block and water, and are rotated every few weeks (we got a few fair-size pastures) until early-mid September, depending on the growing season and/or the prices. Those steers gain well on pasture, last year we had some really nice animals from just being fed pasture (must've been the orchard grass). The steers get shipped out around Labor Day weekend every September, and the cycle starts over again. BTW, the steers are shipped to a feedlot, that's why I mentioned backgrounding.

So from that hay, silage and grass (ESPECIALLY grass) is the lowest cost way to fatten up those steers to slaughter. It's a fair bit of an investment to supplement with cubes and grain, like the feedlots do; and not cheap either.

 

[Aero]

i assume you are selling weaned calves by the pound.

with the price of supplements now, you are almost surely going to come out better letting them get it from the grass.

assume your animals convert 7 lbs of feed to 1 lb of animal. if you feed 300 lbs of cubes per head total from birth to weaning, you have spent around $50 (6 bags @ $7.50) in cubes and $5 in fuel (and $40 in labor) getting it into them (assuming you already have feed bunks). with that 300 lbs of cubes, they gain 43 lbs (300/7) more than they would have.

say the non-supplemented calves weigh 460 and the supplemented calves weigh 503.

*460 lb calves bring $1.1659/lb = $536.31
*503 lb calves bring $1.1287/lb = $567.74
a difference of $31.43.

you spent $55 to gain $31.43. Let the cows do the work and fire the ones that dont bring in a calf that you like.

There is a breakeven point but it comes down to getting feed prices down in the $.06-0.08/lb range. I charge my cows for time so it really doesnt pencil out for me.


*http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/sj_ls850.txt

 

[Aero]

With the silage they put on weight pretty good - no feed cubes necessary. All the supplement they get is a mineral block...

silage is a supplement.

have you penciled out how much silage costs? (DM basis) If you are buying it from someone else, just try to buy it from someone who doesnt know what it costs them.

 

[msscamp]

Maybe I'm missing here, but how could you ever hope to turn a profit on steers that have been fed supplemental feed for 15 months? Even if the supplements have been raised/produced by the owner, that is still a lot of feed!

 

[Brandonm22]

Maybe I'm missing here, but how could you ever hope to turn a profit on steers that have been fed supplemental feed for 15 months? Even if the supplements have been raised/produced by the owner, that is still a lot of feed!

Agreed. Ignoring the creep feed question, if you just fed 5 lbs of mixed ration a day from weaning (at 205 days) to market (at 450 days) you would have 1150 lbs of feed in those stockers ~$300 at the prices being quoted these days. IF your calves WOULD have brought $550 at weaning (550lbs at $1 a pound), those stockers would need to bring $850 plus your pasture and management costs to even break even.

 

[Brute 23]

Hard to get a straight answer. Too many variables in every ones operations and opinions of what is "worth it". Take what you can get from this but try it yourself and document every thing. Do a small test group and know you limits of what you can afford to lose.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. ;-)

 

[TexasRancher]

i assume you are selling weaned calves by the pound.

with the price of supplements now, you are almost surely going to come out better letting them get it from the grass.

assume your animals convert 7 lbs of feed to 1 lb of animal. if you feed 300 lbs of cubes per head total from birth to weaning, you have spent around $50 (6 bags @ $7.50) in cubes and $5 in fuel (and $40 in labor) getting it into them (assuming you already have feed bunks). with that 300 lbs of cubes, they gain 43 lbs (300/7) more than they would have.

say the non-supplemented calves weigh 460 and the supplemented calves weigh 503.

*460 lb calves bring $1.1659/lb = $536.31
*503 lb calves bring $1.1287/lb = $567.74
a difference of $31.43.

you spent $55 to gain $31.43. Let the cows do the work and fire the ones that dont bring in a calf that you like.

There is a breakeven point but it comes down to getting feed prices down in the $.06-0.08/lb range. I charge my cows for time so it really doesnt pencil out for me.


*http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/sj_ls850.txt

Aero...Perfect!...this is what I was looking for...some good data. Thanks to everyone.

 

[Brute 23]

Is that a realistic conversion you can get out of cubes? What about sweet feeds?

I was looking at the other link some one supplied and it asked for a conversion number between like 2 and 30. Had no clue what to put. :|

 

[novatech]

There is nothing about the profit or loss on cattle that you cannot trace back to the price of energy.
If you plan to retire with cattle as a hobby or for profit you had best spend your research time wisely now. The cost of that energy will continue to increase.
What is the most efficient grass to grow. How can you extend your growing season. What is the most efficient way to manage it. What is the most efficient cow that will produce the most marketable calf. These and other questions are the ones you will need to work on for the future.
How not to feed supplements is the major issue.

 

[dun]

With the costs of feed other then pasture, the proper creep-cube feeding to increase profit is to not do it.