Pros and Cons of Angus

[tapeworm]

I agree with you folks about culling more bulls...I wish more registered breedrs carried a knife with em instead of scales and tags. Its probaly also true that SOME of the angus peopel have really given in to the demand for anything black with balls and havent been agressive enough in culling...but theres herf and simi and ever oither kind that dont know when to cut either


1 thing I wanted to ask tho...Kent you said on the subject of brahmas..the tough ones...that its the feedrs and packers fault for buying em....that if nobody bought em nobody would raise em. Why dont you say that about the bulls to?? If nobody bought the sorry bulls nobody would raise em. If its the feedrs fault for buying sorry cattle why isnt it the ranchers fault for buying sorry bulls??

I agree with you about the bulls...but I jsut wondered why you dont apply the same rules??


I think ALL of us would be better off..commercial...registerd...feeders...ALL of us would have a better future...if quality started at the production end instaed of waiting for it to trickle back down from the buyers end. If we wait for that trickle down to happen weve already lost some customers because they jsut werent happy and theres to many other choices

 

[S.R.R.]

if i were too recommend a breed too a rank begginer it would be angus. no animal is trouble free but they are at the top of chart. i mean by this while most of us that have been at it awhile. tampering with genetics pushing birth weights. biting our nails over first calvers. they can come out to their little weekend el rancho and say hey look maude a new calf how cute :cboy:

You truly believe that Angus is more trouble free then say..............Herefords? From what I see Angus are not always the most docile if you know what I mean. ;-) For a beginner I would think that calving easy and docility would be first on the list.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

if i were too recommend a breed too a rank begginer it would be angus. no animal is trouble free but they are at the top of chart. i mean by this while most of us that have been at it awhile. tampering with genetics pushing birth weights. biting our nails over first calvers. they can come out to their little weekend el rancho and say hey look maude a new calf how cute :cboy:

You truly believe that Angus is more trouble free then say..............Herefords? From what I see Angus are not always the most docile if you know what I mean. ;-) For a beginner I would think that calving easy and docility would be first on the list.

what the he!! do you think i was talking about. calving ease, -docility- are some of the reasons i would reccommend them to a begginer . but docile in the hand of a begginer is like putting a loaded gun in a baby hands youll be aright if you dont pull that trigger .....

 

[S.R.R.]

if i were too recommend a breed too a rank begginer it would be angus. no animal is trouble free but they are at the top of chart. i mean by this while most of us that have been at it awhile. tampering with genetics pushing birth weights. biting our nails over first calvers. they can come out to their little weekend el rancho and say hey look maude a new calf how cute :cboy:

You truly believe that Angus is more trouble free then say..............Herefords? From what I see Angus are not always the most docile if you know what I mean. ;-) For a beginner I would think that calving easy and docility would be first on the list.

what the he!! do you think i was talking about. calving ease, -docility- are some of the reasons i would reccommend them to a begginer . but docile in the hand of a begginer is like putting a loaded gun in a baby hands..... your dealing with a animal you be careful now

O.K. I will give you the calving ease on the most part but I can not agree with you on the docility! And yes you have to be careful with all animals but I would rather have a docile herd of cattle then not.

 

[Frankie]

Okay, nobody else will post it, so I will. I'm not for or against'em, I just choose to raise Herefords. This oughta be fun!!

Pros: The American Angus Assn, CAB, sale barn acceptance, feedlot acceptance, packer acceptance, consumer acceptance, fertility, disposition, early puberty, crossbreed well with about anything, strong maternal traits, carcass quality, all come to mind.

Cons: Honestly, I can't come up with anything that you couldn't say about any breed. There are some nutcases in the Angus breed, some slow breeders, sorry carcass, but I think you can can find those qualities in some animals in every breed. I think the pros of Angus far outweigh the cons. Apparently a lot of other cattle producers agree with me because both purebred and commercial cattlemen are turning their herds black.

 

[Frankie]

The fact of the matter is that Angus cattle offer more than any other breed out there.

What specifically has the Angus done for the cattle business? I have already asked this question once, in a slightly different way. Seems as thought you can't answer or won't.

I think he probably means CAB has done a lot for the cattle business. Until CAB became popular, cattle sold for an average price. Since CAB has become popular, consumers, retailers, packers are all willing to pay more for quality beef. Producers who are willing to pay attention to the genetics of their cow herd and the bulls they buy and actually produce higher quality beef are rewarded for it with CAB premiums. That has virtually changed the way the industry buys and sells cattle. About 50% of the cattle today are sold on some sort of grid and they expect that percentage to increase over the next few years. Now CAB is not the only grid where you can get premiums. Packers also pay for better yielding cattle, YG 1s and 2s will often get a premium.

 

[MikeC]

Okay, nobody else will post it, so I will. I'm not for or against'em, I just choose to raise Herefords. This oughta be fun!!

Pros: The American Angus Assn, CAB, sale barn acceptance, feedlot acceptance, packer acceptance, consumer acceptance, fertility, disposition, early puberty, crossbreed well with about anything, strong maternal traits, carcass quality, all come to mind.

Cons: Honestly, I can't come up with anything that you couldn't say about any breed. There are some nutcases in the Angus breed, some slow breeders, sorry carcass, but I think you can can find those qualities in some animals in every breed. I think the pros of Angus far outweigh the cons. Apparently a lot of other cattle producers agree with me because both purebred and commercial cattlemen are turning their herds black.

Udderly predictable! ;-)

 

[Frankie]

Okay, nobody else will post it, so I will. I'm not for or against'em, I just choose to raise Herefords. This oughta be fun!!

Pros: The American Angus Assn, CAB, sale barn acceptance, feedlot acceptance, packer acceptance, consumer acceptance, fertility, disposition, early puberty, crossbreed well with about anything, strong maternal traits, carcass quality, all come to mind.

Cons: Honestly, I can't come up with anything that you couldn't say about any breed. There are some nutcases in the Angus breed, some slow breeders, sorry carcass, but I think you can can find those qualities in some animals in every breed. I think the pros of Angus far outweigh the cons. Apparently a lot of other cattle producers agree with me because both purebred and commercial cattlemen are turning their herds black.

Udderly predictable! ;-)

And utterly true. Oops, did I forget to mention calving ease? Probably did, but when you posted and I thought "Charolais", it reminded me of that Angus trait.

 

[andybob]

Pro's they are black, beeeutiful, and every other breed wants to copy them.

We've been here before, black colouring is not desired in the Tuli breed, and is a reason to disallow registration.
I breed for adaptability, low maintenence and function,colour has no place in my programme,exept to mention that black cattle did not thrive in the environment in which the Tuli developed.
The Angus cons;heat stressed and temperament,pros has been well promoted and are easily marketed and cross well with adapted breeds to give a marketable F1 from easy care breeds.

 

[Texan]

Oops, did I forget to mention calving ease? Probably did, but when you posted and I thought "Charolais", it reminded me of that Angus trait.

:lol2:

 

[VanC]

Australian Cattleman wrote:
. I'll never understand why breed associations and breeders don't market their cattle as is instead of copying another breed.

AC - Can you say "MONEY? " Can you say "FOLLOW THE DOLLARS?"

DOC HARRIS

Actually, DOC, it was me who sais that, not Austrailian Cattleman. And I stand by it. I understand about the money. Makes sense to give the buyers what they want.

As I and others have said, this love affair with black hides is probably hurting the business in the long run. There are too many black bulls being raised, sold, and used that shouldn't be, just because they're black. These bulls are producing lower quality beef which is turning off consumers. We're winning the battle, so to speak, but losing the war.

I mean no one any disrespect, and I'm not knocking any breed, especially Angus. I just consider this to be a problem in the long run, and one of the reasons that quality grades have gone way down the past few years. I guess if anyone is to blame, it's the buyers and packers. They want black and they get it, regardless of quality.

 

[Angus Guy]

Anybob

I don't know anything about Tuli cattle (wouln't know it when I saw it) but I'm glad that as breed they are trying to be true to what brought to the table. But I will have to disagree with you on temperment and heat stress. Our summers can get just as hot and humid as most places. The angus cattle will and do get along very well. I have one herd on stip mine pasture and they have one tree in it. All of the lakes are fenced off except 1 for drinking and they are very seldom standing in it. Conception has been 95% or better in 60 day season. Calf weights without creep are in high 400# range at 130-140 days of age range. As for angus not being docile my 40 years of raising them says that this just not true. I have been around or raised most of the main breeds of cattle and the docile factor to simply put is how the cattle were raised and are handled.

 

[Alan]

Huh? Angus are known for being a bit aggressive, they are known for going through fences, under fences and fighting. I know that those traits are trying to be bred out but are they bred out?

Alan

 

[jp]

con, they come in black. Pros, they come in red and when crossed with beefmaster they are purty. jp

 

[Frankie]

[

I'm not aware of any agressive traits being bred out. My Angus are fine. They're not pets, but I don't want pets. They come to feed and follow a bucket anywhere. I can walk among them, even scratch a few heads if I want to. The yearing bulls home from test are tamer than I want them to be, bulls being bulls. Yes, there are some nutcases, but you'll find them in most any breed. An Angus bull will fight for the right to breed. I don't think that's an especially bad trait. And an Angus momma will fight to protect her calf. I don't think that's an altogether bad trait, either. We do weigh our calves at birth with no problems, but I doubt you or another stranger would be able to walk out there and get hold of a new calf without a momma taking notice.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

We do weigh our calves at birth with no problems, but I doubt you or another stranger would be able to walk out there and get hold of a new calf without a momma taking notice.

Frankie -. . . .and I would certainly hope that she would take notice, and "inform" you that she was taking notice! If the momma cow did NOT show a protective interest in her calf, her "mothering ability" EPD would go down the tubes darned quick in my appraisal of her! What it amounts to in "Real Time" is the priorities that should be established in our "Herd Policies" section of our BU$INE$$ Plan! It is the little things that really count, and whether or not a cow is protective of her produce (calf) seems like a little thing, when in reality it is the whole 'crux' of whether we are raising Beef or playing games. "Plan Your Work and Work Your Plan"! You don't just buy a bunch of cows and - - hope!

DOC HARRIS

 

[SEC]

Huh? Angus are known for being a bit aggressive, they are known for going through fences, under fences and fighting. I know that those traits are trying to be bred out but are they bred out?

Tell me a breed that can't be like that. We are all to critical of breeds for that, mostly limousin where I am from. Bloodlines are very important and most importantly what they were handled like through their life. For the pyschologists it's called "imprinting".

I have also worked on a limo ranch that were excellent to handle for cattle and the % of those cattle that got stupid wasn't any worse than any other breed.

If you understand cattle and what makes them tick, they become easy to work with.

 

[farmwife]

The fact of the matter is that Angus cattle offer more than any other breed out there.

What specifically has the Angus done for the cattle business? I have already asked this question once, in a slightly different way. Seems as thought you can't answer or won't.

I think he probably means CAB has done a lot for the cattle business. Until CAB became popular, cattle sold for an average price. Since CAB has become popular, consumers, retailers, packers are all willing to pay more for quality beef. Producers who are willing to pay attention to the genetics of their cow herd and the bulls they buy and actually produce higher quality beef are rewarded for it with CAB premiums. That has virtually changed the way the industry buys and sells cattle. About 50% of the cattle today are sold on some sort of grid and they expect that percentage to increase over the next few years. Now CAB is not the only grid where you can get premiums. Packers also pay for better yielding cattle, YG 1s and 2s will often get a premium.

Maybe, but it seems to me that if I said something, I would be big enough to answer and back it up. I don't think ENNOT knows the answer!!!!

 

[Kent]

I agree with you folks about culling more bulls...I wish more registered breedrs carried a knife with em instead of scales and tags. Its probaly also true that SOME of the angus peopel have really given in to the demand for anything black with balls and havent been agressive enough in culling...but theres herf and simi and ever oither kind that dont know when to cut either


1 thing I wanted to ask tho...Kent you said on the subject of brahmas..the tough ones...that its the feedrs and packers fault for buying em....that if nobody bought em nobody would raise em. Why dont you say that about the bulls to?? If nobody bought the sorry bulls nobody would raise em. If its the feedrs fault for buying sorry cattle why isnt it the ranchers fault for buying sorry bulls??

I agree with you about the bulls...but I jsut wondered why you dont apply the same rules??


I think ALL of us would be better off..commercial...registerd...feeders...ALL of us would have a better future...if quality started at the production end instaed of waiting for it to trickle back down from the buyers end. If we wait for that trickle down to happen weve already lost some customers because they jsut werent happy and theres to many other choices

Oh, you're right, no doubt. It is ultimately the fault of the people who buy them. People should not buy the sorry bulls, but they will because we're greedy by nature, just like the feeders buy every calf that comes through the sale when they know going in that some of them will never grade. I guess what I'm saying is you can narrow it down to one man who has the ability to see that these bulls never breed a cow and that's the one who raised them.

I see what you are saying, but I don't think the concept transfers from our discussion of Brahman beef because you seem to think Brahman blood should be limited whereas I think it should be unlimited but improved. My whole point has been to improve the Brahman's carcass quality, which is putting quality in at the production stage. The feeder then has the responsibility to segregate and properly feed his cattle, and if he does, Brahman cross cattle (up to 1/2 bloods or more) will do fine provided the genetics are there. If everybody along the production chain doesn't do his job, that calf has a lesser chance to grade, no matter his breed makeup. Limiting Brahman blood will just prolong the process of improving the Brahman breeds. The fewer cattle out there to measure, the longer it will take.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

[

• quote="tapeworm"]I agree with you folks about culling more bulls...I wish more registered breedrs carried a knife with em instead of scales and tags

. these breeder that yall are referring to. i think their low end bulls would work on some folks top end cows. ive seen farmers improve their calf crops with bulls like those. most breeders have high hopes for every bull calf that hits the ground they aint gonna start cutting their nutts out at birth . how many great bull's have escaped the knife.