Paternal vs Maternal in Crossbreeding

[adammck15]

I don't mean to sound stupid or ask a stupid question, but in a lot of my research I seem to come back to one question, and I can't find an answer for it. When setting up a crossbreeding program, does it matter which parent is which? For example, if you wanted to breed an Angus to a Charolais (not my plan, just an example), would it matter if it was an Angus bull on a Charolais cow or a Charolais Bull on an Angus cow?
I know is some extreme examples with hybrid species, (wolf/coyote, some poultry species, and increased success with bovid hybrids) it seems to make a difference with successful breeding's, but what about inheritability in crossbreds?
Any knowledge or experience in this matter would be greatly appreciated! I hope you have a wonderful day! (And stay healthy amidst this coronavirus pandemic!)

 

[Ebenezer]

The answer is yes. But you'll have to find folks who have made past crosses to know. There was some old data on Angus and Herefords but I do not have it.

 

[Ky hills]

Not a stupid question at all. I don't have any factual references to quote, I'm sure there has been research done on that angle.
In my opinion, a lot of it would also depend on any individual goals or preference. For example one could say that Angus cows and a Charolais bull would be more practical. As the Angus cows should be smaller and more efficient to maintain than Charolais type cows. As for Angus and Hereford crosses we have had it both ways and just in terms of appearance I see no difference. If one were to record everything down in detail then perhaps a pattern may well be there.

 

[Josher]

I've heard from a neighbour that as far as Hereford angus cross goes that the angus cow x Hereford bull is preferred because it passes on more of the angus maternal side if you are keeping that heifer cross. But I know of guys that have had Hereford herd and want angus in there so they use an angus bull with good results. So I don't know know how much difference it makes.
This is an interesting topic though. I'd like to hear more experiences on this

 

[76 Bar]

As the Angus cows should be smaller and more efficient to maintain than Charolais type cows.

Food for thought:
http://www.noahsangusranch.com/Docs/Sinclair11SpringNews_Houghindd.pdf

 

[Ky hills]

As the Angus cows should be smaller and more efficient to maintain than Charolais type cows.

Food for thought:
http://www.noahsangusranch.com/Docs/Sinclair11SpringNews_Houghindd.pdf

Yes, I had read several similar things before but it seems like most folks still tend to think in previous terms. I used to have Charolais and those cows were from 1450 - 1800+ lbs. now have Angus and Hereford cows. Our largest current cow is a Hereford that will rival any of the Charolais cows in size. All our other cows are significantly smaller. I personally think those breed charts are estimates and there is quite a range of all traits within each breed.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

From my experience it does matter abit. We have quite a mixed bag of breeds in the herd and have used and still using various breeds bulls. Some crosses just works better than others, even if the breeds mixed are the same. But of course, it mostly depends from the cattle you cross.

 

[76 Bar]

The old saw there's more diversity within breeds than amongst breeds comes to mind. 8) ;-)
More of anything comes with a price. There's no free lunch.

 

[Nesikep]

RNA is passed only from the mother to the offspring, so if there's some differences there, it could make a difference I guess, looking at it just from a genetic standpoint.. the ribosome is the "energy factory" of the cell, so I'd think there could be some differences in efficiency between them.

 

[Ky hills]

The old saw there's more diversity within breeds than amongst breeds comes to mind. 8) ;-)
More of anything comes with a price. There's no free lunch.

Yes I agree, more production translates the more cost. In my opinion the longer it goes and the more changes are chased it creates more diversity and also more challenges. Used to be folks would crossbreed with continentals to get more growth then breeds like Angus and Hereford started becoming more like them and vise versa till I'm not sure any graph or model of breed character or growth traits fit.
To me the curve bender trend tried to cover a lot of bases but may have diluted some of the original strong points.

 

[adammck15]

What I want to do (although I know many people will say there are better crosses, and I'm sure there are) Is try for a British white/Wagyu cross. I think the hardiness/mothering ability of the British white along with the quality of the Wagyu (And maybe if I can breed out the speckling, the color) would be an awesome mix. In California (please don't judge me, I'm the opposite of most Californians) it's very hard to get into beef ranching, unless you were born into it. I believe on a small scale, I would need a niche product, and I think this would work.
I am new to this forum (Although over the years during my research, I found myself here), and I love it! Thank you for all of your comments!

 

[VaCowman]

What I want to do (although I know many people will say there are better crosses, and I'm sure there are) Is try for a British white/Wagyu cross. I think the hardiness/mothering ability of the British white along with the quality of the Wagyu (And maybe if I can breed out the speckling, the color) would be an awesome mix. In California (please don't judge me, I'm the opposite of most Californians) it's very hard to get into beef ranching, unless you were born into it. I believe on a small scale, I would need a niche product, and I think this would work.
I am new to this forum (Although over the years during my research, I found myself here), and I love it! Thank you for all of your comments!

Welcome to the boards! :welcome: :tiphat:

 

[sstterry]

What I want to do (although I know many people will say there are better crosses, and I'm sure there are) Is try for a British white/Wagyu cross. I think the hardiness/mothering ability of the British white along with the quality of the Wagyu (And maybe if I can breed out the speckling, the color) would be an awesome mix. In California (please don't judge me, I'm the opposite of most Californians) it's very hard to get into beef ranching, unless you were born into it. I believe on a small scale, I would need a niche product, and I think this would work.
I am new to this forum (Although over the years during my research, I found myself here), and I love it! Thank you for all of your comments!

Welcome, Adam. Stick around and enjoy!

 

[andybob]

It might be worth finding out how the composite program at Arizona University between the Wagyu and Tuli the program was started about ten years ago, so should have some results on the composite. https://cals.arizona.edu/aes/vbarv/currentbeefresearch.html

 

[Stickney94]

What I want to do (although I know many people will say there are better crosses, and I'm sure there are) Is try for a British white/Wagyu cross. I think the hardiness/mothering ability of the British white along with the quality of the Wagyu (And maybe if I can breed out the speckling, the color) would be an awesome mix. In California (please don't judge me, I'm the opposite of most Californians) it's very hard to get into beef ranching, unless you were born into it. I believe on a small scale, I would need a niche product, and I think this would work.
I am new to this forum (Although over the years during my research, I found myself here), and I love it! Thank you for all of your comments!

Welcome!
You're wise in identifying your market first. Hopefully you have a processor near by as well.
I raise Wagyu x Angus cross cattle. Assuming you have a source for good British white cows, I'd suggest to be careful on your source for Wagyu sires/bulls/semen. I use AI as it was the only cost effective way to get into having Wagyu influence.
Lastly, make sure your market is ready for Wagyu influence. I sell both FB Angus and F1 Wagyu (shortly F2), but some customers that were first on the list for Wagyu have gone back to FB Angus. The Wagyu marbling/taste was to much for them.

 

[adammck15]

Stickney94 very interesting and good point! I live in a very agricultural area, but work in an area where I have heard some of the local restaurants have even approached people who were not raising Wagyu and asked them to do so for them. Hoping that I can bust into the market there.
I have been in touch with some British white producers who seem great but are on the opposite side of the country. I may need to get some commercial cows and go embryo a first. Also I have heard the Ancient White Park has superior marbling compared to a lot of British/continental breeds, and contrary to popular belief they're not closely related to the British white. They supposedly are hardly similar to longhorns, but bigger and have great meat. May be a better choice for me than the British white. Maybe get rid of some of the sway back (heard that's an issue with some Wagyu), add some size, and hardiness.
Andybob, I will definitely check it out! Thank you!

 

[MO-Ruminants]

I've often thought that a good way to breed cattle would be if one could buy highly adapted maternal females from somebody nearby and breed to a very paternal terminal bull. All offspring is sold and any needed replacements are purchased each year.