New Hereford Calves

[BFE]

Myself, I can't afford to go around tilting windmills on principle when it comes to cattle. I can't change a nationwide market. I'll raise black. If I want Herefords I'll put a black bull on them. I can't afford a 30-40 cent dock.

Like was said JD brings more than any other color tractor. Some are worth it some not. It is what it is.

 

[Travlr]

Why do you expect life to be fair. the market sets fairness. Demand for one product determines price. The reason for that demand is preference and perception of value by a certain set of buyers. It doesn't matter what your choice is as a seller, the buyer creates the selling price. We live in a market based economy. The only way what you are referring to as "fair" is for the government to set all buying and selling prices. Is that what you really want? They have that in some countries I would imagine but I doubt if I'd want to live there. If you want top prices, raise a product that brings that. If what you raise does not fit that demand then you are the one that has chosen to sell for less. it's not the market's fault

No one expects life to be fair. But we do expect decent people to recognize unfair practices and end them if it is possible. And your contention that the only way to end the unfair practice is to have government controlled pricing is bull**it.

And there are people that raise raise a competitive product. You know that there are red/white/patterned cattle that will grade on the rail every bit as well as anything CAB has... but they get docked at the point of sale as live animals.

Again, until you can distinguish CAB by comparing meat quality between two carcasses in the cooler, the CAB designation is bogus. And you can't do that.

 

[Travlr]

Do orange and red tractors get a dock or do green tractors get a premium?

Apples and oranges... different types of markets. Tractor manufacturers and dealers set their own prices based on what the market will bear. CAB has created a false perception of value based on nothing legitimate.

Nevertheless this is a good example of how people will pay more for, perhaps unjustified, perceived value. My red tractor would do anything a green tractor would do, and for less money.

 

[Travlr]

That's the thing, if a the carcasses are the same grade, then there's no difference

And that should be the determining factor in sale price.

I like the CAB product, have nothing against Angus cattle

Neither do I. There are great Angus cattle... and some not so much... just like all breeds. The issue I have is with the CAB program and its effects on the market, the pocket of producers, and the genetic effects in the industry.

I don't go along with the scorched earth marketing that is based on continually discrediting the competition.

As stated above, Angus cattle are not the problem. CAB is the problem...

 

[SDM]

How much market share does CAB have? How much of live price difference is based on the consumers' perceiving value and paying for it? My understanding is there are only small number of packing companies - how much of that live price difference is just an excuse to get non-blacks cheaper? A little of both?

 

[SDM]

I just looked up the CHB website and it has a store/restaurant locator within the menu button.
It looks the store that used to sell it not too far from us is no longer in business, the closest retail store I could find was 81 miles away. There was some sort of bar/restaurant around 20 miles away that is said to serve CHB.

Homepage - Certified Hereford Beef

www.certifiedherefordbeef.com

Closest to me is 135 miles, in Northern VA. I wouldn't go there to get it free.

 

[tex452]

And that should be the determining factor in sale price.



Neither do I. There are great Angus cattle... and some not so much... just like all breeds. The issue I have is with the CAB program and its effects on the market, the pocket of producers, and the genetic effects in the industry.



As stated above, Angus cattle are not the problem. CAB is the problem...

Until recently they didn't recognize red angus as CAB, that goes to show there advertising is bogus because they are the same breed, just a different pigment.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

It's unfair because the "premium" based on color has nothing to do with quality, or effort, or inputs... but only a fake relationship with a certification program that means nothing except as a marketing campaign sold to the ignorant, with no real value.

When one person gets paid more for producing an orange widgit and another gets less for a green widgit, both widgets being equal in every way except for color, the "premium" for one is a "dock" for the other.

It's nothing more than a slick marketing strategy that has worked much better than it deserves. And it's hurting individual high quality producers and the industry as a whole.

If you can tell the difference between a carcass that grades choice and another carcass that grades choice... never seeing what color the animal was before it was skinned... then you can say it's fair. Until you can do that... it isn't fair.

When one person gets paid more for producing an orange widgit and another gets less for a green widgit, both widgets being equal in every way except for color, the "premium" for one is a "dock" for the other, it is not a dock, it means the widget maker should be using orange dye not green especially when it costs the same. It's common sense to create what buyers want, it doesn't make sense to knowingly create what the majority value as worth less (whatever the reason) and then complain about fairness when you knew the outcome before the experiment

 

[Travlr]

When one person gets paid more for producing an orange widgit and another gets less for a green widgit, both widgets being equal in every way except for color, the "premium" for one is a "dock" for the other, it is not a dock, it means the widget maker should be using orange dye not green especially when it costs the same. It's common sense to create what buyers want, it doesn't make sense to knowingly create what the majority value as worth less (whatever the reason) and then complain about fairness when you knew the outcome before the experiment

You are apparently ignorant of the genetic effects inherent in small gene pools... or the advantages of hybrid vigor.

 

[Ky hills]

Problem

You are apparently ignorant of the genetic effects inherent in small gene pools... or the advantages of hybrid vigor.

Yeah, a widget being different colors has no comparison to the differences and nuances of breeds of cattle. I've always believed that there is beneficial reasons for maintaining the relevancy of different breeds.
Angus are certainly not perfect and neither is any other breed but different breeds can be crossed to build on strengths and weaknesses.
Other breeds excel at sone traits that Angus don't, therefore it's to everybody's advantage to have a good supply of other options available if the need arises.

 

[Charbrangus]

I sold 2 half brothers last week. One weighed 535 and was black with a white spot on his face, brought 245 a lb. The other was white with a black nose, weighed 615 brought 190. The white calf honestly was the nicer calf. The black calf brought $1310.75 and the white calf brought $1168.50.
The bull in this picture is the sire.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

the real k

That's the thing, if a the carcasses are the same grade, then there's no difference
We have had purebred Angus and Hereford calves as well as crosses of the two processed and absolutely no discernible difference in taste or quality, all have been great. We prefer to process red calves and sell the black ones because the cool aid drinking people think the black hide cattle tastes better.
The meat we get from our calves regardless of hide color is far and away better than any of the choice "Angus" labeled beef at the grocery store.
It is my belief that the feeders and packers are basing their biases on the types of cattle from years ago. Carcass quality has been and is bred for in most breeds.
If anybody listens to the Angus supporters they'd have you believing that no other breed of cattle was fit to eat, and that is just not reality.
I like the CAB product, have nothing against Angus cattle and have several friends that are Angus breeders, but I don't go along with the scorched earth marketing that is based on continually discrediting the competition.
The folks where we take our cattle to be processed have thus far always been complimentary of how our calves are finished and how the end product looks.

ey to overcoming this issue is to do what some of the people on this board do, create your own market, sell your cattle individually to others, finish them out an sell by hanging weight to people that don't care about color. Then your problem is solved, the pricing is solved and your perception of value in your product is solved. If you don't you're selling on someone else's perception.

 

[GoWyo]

CAB has several advantages: Angus starts with "A" so first in the alphabet; Angus is easy to say compared to about any other breed and has name recognition; and CAB has one of the longest running branded beef products. Why can't someone or a group step up and make a superior branded beef product that disregards hide color? Seems there is potential money to be made, but it will take capital and a whole lot of creativity.

 

[gcreekrch]

If this was a typical example of an average Hereford cow, there would be far fewer baldies in North America today. Hound guts, no depth and no milk are not desirable traits. I hope you have better individuals.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

View attachment 35961
If this was a typical example of an average Hereford cow, there would be far fewer baldies in North America today. Hound guts, no depth and no milk are not desirable traits. I hope you have better individuals.

That is a first calf heifer run on dry grass and syrup since the ground dried up in May. I only feed my heifer calves with a target of getting them bred at 50% of mature body weight. Seedstock producers like to talk about raising cattle in "commercial" conditions but in reality they cannot afford to sacrifice half their heifer crop to select for animals that can survive eating the gorse.

 

[BFE]

I sold 2 half brothers last week. One weighed 535 and was black with a white spot on his face, brought 245 a lb. The other was white with a black nose, weighed 615 brought 190. The white calf honestly was the nicer calf. The black calf brought $1310.75 and the white calf brought $1168.50.
The bull in this picture is the sire.

In my local markets you start losing at 600 pounds. 550-575 gets the most per pound/pounds sold unless you take them to slaughter weight.

 

[Dave]

I recently saw a picture of several hundred black and baldy cows on facebook. The picture was posted by XXXXX Hereford Ranch. People were questioning why a Hereford ranch had black hided cows. I know this man. He explained he has a significant herd of registered Herefords. He also has a good size commercial herd where he tests the genetics which he is raising. Thus black hided cows bred to Hereford bulls. He is practically next door to a well know Angus breeder. The last several years his Hereford bulls have out sold the neighbor's Angus bulls by $2,000.
If you check out what grid pricing is and how much the premium is for cattle that make CAB, it isn't that much money. And not all black hided cattle make CAB. So why the big price difference in some areas? I don't know. Here solid red and Char cross calves of the same quality sell right with black hided calves. Straight Herefords do get docked. But red hided Hereford crosses sell at the top of the market.

 

[Silver]

Here solid red and Char cross calves of the same quality sell right with black hided calves. Straight Herefords do get docked.

Straight Hereford can be tough sell here too. Other than that price is based on quality, not colour. Big shiny red and "traditional" coloured Simmental calves generally get paid very well.

 

[Travlr]

The last several years his Hereford bulls have out sold the neighbor's Angus bulls by $2,000.
... not all black hided cattle make CAB. So why the big price difference in some areas? I don't know. Here solid red and Char cross calves of the same quality sell right with black hided calves. Straight Herefords do get docked. But red hided Hereford crosses sell at the top of the market.

I do believe that times are changing for the better, because people are beginning to realize how detrimental the CAB program is in terms of genetic diversity. Even feedlots are more competitive when bidding for red calves. But we aren't on a level playing field yet. Not as long as CAB is being promoted and there are people that base their decisions strictly on color.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

A carcass that grades CHOICE doesn't mean it is a good carcass. You have to take into consideration YIELD GRADE and size of REA. If you have an animal producing a 9" REA with 1.5" of fat, that is NOT a money maker.

The Hereford breed has been well known for having a hard time getting marbling without adding a lot of backfat. That is where the "discount" originally came from. All Hereford steers were discounted BEFORE CAB.
Like anything, feedlot buyers will discount for ANYTHING they can get away with.

I cannot believe more people don't develop a marketing strategy instead of just loading up their calves and haul to a sale barn. "IF" you have superior calves, and Buyer X buys your calves and makes out well with them, can't you contact the buyer and sell directly to him?
Many, many years ago I sold our steers thru a sale barn. A feeder calf sale. Finally, located a small feedlot and sold direct. He died and we sought out another feedlot. I realize I am not dealing with big numbers like out West, but same principle should apply.
If you have a good product - MARKET that product.