Mix of minerals or single mineral choice

[HDRider]

After reading viewtopic.php?f=7&t=77902

and assuming you put a mix of minerals in there.

I have to ask, why do more people not use something like this? Not for its design, but more for it providing multiple minerals and letting the cattle choose what they need or want?

 

[dun]

Must be an Arkansas thing. Never have seen anything like that used around here. That would go back to the cow knows what mineral it needs.

 

[Nesikep]

I've heard of people putting out every kind of salt block there is...

I'll rather put out one mineral I know has what the cows need, mix 50/50 with salt and call it a day.

 

[HDRider]

Must be an Arkansas thing. Never have seen anything like that used around here. That would go back to the cow knows what mineral it needs.

This is not mine. It just follows what I have read, which does say the cow knows what mineral it needs. Is that false?

I was asking for that specific reason.

 

[R V]

Dun,
I don't think I am that far from you and I decided to try this type of cafeteria style minerals and was surprised by one mineral that they ate a large amount of this winter - long before grass - magnesium. I have put up hay on another farm for over 10 years and never thought much of it, but that hay must be magnesium deficient as I have used high mag lime here. Once we noticed this, we put out the usual mineral feeders with 3 compartments and put the 3 minerals they were eating the most of and all the groups of cows consumed much more magnesium that anticipated. I am glad we did this experiment before grass. My cows usually eat much more mineral than they are supposed to and I think I will break even compared to my usual mineral expense just this winter. I am guessing that they were consuming all of the chelated minerals to get the magnesium. My cows are basically just consuming phosphorus, magnesium and a lessor amount of potassium. I am curious if the intake changes when they are on grass. Also of note, I have not had a retained placenta yet and that has been an unexplained problem on my farm.
Ron

 

[TexasBred]

Dun,
I don't think I am that far from you and I decided to try this type of cafeteria style minerals and was surprised by one mineral that they ate a large amount of this winter - long before grass - magnesium. I have put up hay on another farm for over 10 years and never thought much of it, but that hay must be magnesium deficient as I have used high mag lime here. Once we noticed this, we put out the usual mineral feeders with 3 compartments and put the 3 minerals they were eating the most of and all the groups of cows consumed much more magnesium that anticipated. I am glad we did this experiment before grass. My cows usually eat much more mineral than they are supposed to and I think I will break even compared to my usual mineral expense just this winter. I am guessing that they were consuming all of the chelated minerals to get the magnesium. My cows are basically just consuming phosphorus, magnesium and a lessor amount of potassium. I am curious if the intake changes when they are on grass. Also of note, I have not had a retained placenta yet and that has been an unexplained problem on my farm.
Ron

You have individual feeders for phos, mag and potassium ?? What do you mix with it to make it palatable and encourage consumption and how do you meet their needs for the micro minerals that are fed at much lower levels.....same for vitamins.

 

[R V]

Yes, the round mineral feeders that we have used for years have 3 compartments. In the past, I put salt in 1 and chelated mineral combo in the other 2. I just purchased one 20 compartment mineral feeder and we put a different mineral in each compartment - except for phosphorus and potassium and they recommended 2 for each of these and we left 2 open. I believe it was 14 different types of mineral that we purchased to start with. I guess we were pretty good on the other minerals as the cows did go through the phosphorus as predicted, a much lessor amount of potassium and much more magnesium than expected. We did not put anything in the mineral to increase intake - just poured it out of the bag. I talked to several old dairymen and ranchers and this is similar to what many of them used 30+ years ago. I always spent more in mineral than what any of the different mineral dealers predicted. The intake of my cows for the combination chelated minerals was always much higher than predicted - maybe that is why they aren't eating all of the minerals now. After trying 5-6 different brands + different combo's, I decided to try this. Only time will tell if it was a good idea, but so far, I am liking it.

 

[R V]

Also, before I purchased this, I did use the Purina mineral tubs this fall as recommended and am planning on doing this for each breeding season as it seemed cost efficient and the cows were cycling like crazy at he beginning of the fall breeding season.

 

[TexasBred]

Yes, the round mineral feeders that we have used for years have 3 compartments. In the past, I put salt in 1 and chelated mineral combo in the other 2. I just purchased one 20 compartment mineral feeder and we put a different mineral in each compartment - except for phosphorus and potassium and they recommended 2 for each of these and we left 2 open. I believe it was 14 different types of mineral that we purchased to start with. I guess we were pretty good on the other minerals as the cows did go through the phosphorus as predicted, a much lessor amount of potassium and much more magnesium than expected. We did not put anything in the mineral to increase intake - just poured it out of the bag. I talked to several old dairymen and ranchers and this is similar to what many of them used 30+ years ago. I always spent more in mineral than what any of the different mineral dealers predicted. The intake of my cows for the combination chelated minerals was always much higher than predicted - maybe that is why they aren't eating all of the minerals now. After trying 5-6 different brands + different combo's, I decided to try this. Only time will tell if it was a good idea, but so far, I am liking it.

You have sources that will sell you cobalt, iodine, selenium, iron, sulfur, etc?? Hard to believe.

 

[Nesikep]

RV, I'm betting some of those minerals have selenium in them.. retained placenta is a common symptom of selenium deficiency.

I did a blood test to find out what my cows were lacking, and found a mineral that supplies those I'm lacking in greater quantities.. it's worked for me and it's much simpler

 

[branguscowgirl]

retained placenta is a common symptom of selenium deficiency.

I know this is a proven fact. However it is strange that my cows with "severe Selenium deficiency" never had a retained placenta. Not even one. :roll:

 

[WalnutCrest]

Yes, the round mineral feeders that we have used for years have 3 compartments. In the past, I put salt in 1 and chelated mineral combo in the other 2. I just purchased one 20 compartment mineral feeder and we put a different mineral in each compartment - except for phosphorus and potassium and they recommended 2 for each of these and we left 2 open. I believe it was 14 different types of mineral that we purchased to start with. I guess we were pretty good on the other minerals as the cows did go through the phosphorus as predicted, a much lessor amount of potassium and much more magnesium than expected. We did not put anything in the mineral to increase intake - just poured it out of the bag. I talked to several old dairymen and ranchers and this is similar to what many of them used 30+ years ago. I always spent more in mineral than what any of the different mineral dealers predicted. The intake of my cows for the combination chelated minerals was always much higher than predicted - maybe that is why they aren't eating all of the minerals now. After trying 5-6 different brands + different combo's, I decided to try this. Only time will tell if it was a good idea, but so far, I am liking it.

You have sources that will sell you cobalt, iodine, selenium, iron, sulfur, etc?? Hard to believe.

I found this in about 30 seconds. So, my advice is ... let Google be your friend.

Quite separately ... thank you Ron for this. Very interesting.

 

[TexasBred]

I found this in about 30 seconds. So, my advice is ... let Google be your friend.

Quite separately ... thank you Ron for this. Very interesting.

I'm familar with Google but thanks for the link anyway. Those prices are outrageous. Example: you can buy several tons of calcium for what that 25 lb bag costs. Much more simple to just buy good mineral that is balanced and keep it out full time. A man would go broke feeding these individual minerals and some can be toxic if over consumed.

 

[Son of Butch]

I have to ask, why do more people not use something like this? Not for its design, but more for it providing multiple minerals and letting the cattle choose what they need or want?

In 1973 I toured MVBA [Minnesota Valley Breeders Assoc.] dairy herd and they were doing a 2 year trial doing exactly this with their milk cows. They found no benefit and only increased mineral cost vs force feeding mineral in the grain mix to the milking herd.

 

[R V]

I have had a few tested in the past with equivocal results and did give extra selenium in the feed + injections with minimal, if any improvement with retained placentas. Nesikep, the cows have hardly touched any of the other minerals - including the selenium. My calving season isn't done, but so far, no retained placentas. What I paid for the initial minerals was basically the same cost as a pallet of whichever, latest, greatest mineral that I have purchased in the past and cheaper than at least 2. This seems simple and old fashioned to me and may not work. It has been interesting thus far and since I have only had to order magnesium and phosphorus for the next couple of months, it appears it is going to cost me less. With the seasonal changes, consumption of the other minerals may increase with a resultant increase in cost. I will try to update this thread periodically. This approach will either be cost effective or not, but thus far the experiment is revealing optimistic results which is much better than my previous disappointments.

 

[bball]

Thanks for posting RV. This kinda thing is exactly why I joined this board, to learn from and share with other cattle folks. Thanks for keeping an open mind and I look forward to your updates..that's the beauty of this, always something to learn.

 

[TexasBred]

I have had a few tested in the past with equivocal results and did give extra selenium in the feed + injections with minimal, if any improvement with retained placentas. Nesikep, the cows have hardly touched any of the other minerals - including the selenium. My calving season isn't done, but so far, no retained placentas. What I paid for the initial minerals was basically the same cost as a pallet of whichever, latest, greatest mineral that I have purchased in the past and cheaper than at least 2. This seems simple and old fashioned to me and may not work. It has been interesting thus far and since I have only had to order magnesium and phosphorus for the next couple of months, it appears it is going to cost me less. With the seasonal changes, consumption of the other minerals may increase with a resultant increase in cost. I will try to update this thread periodically. This approach will either be cost effective or not, but thus far the experiment is revealing optimistic results which is much better than my previous disappointments.

I'm just afraid by doing this and allowing the cattle to determine what taste best and eating that while neglecting the other minerals you're running a risk of having cattle deficient in some minerals while others could literally be reaching toward toxic levels, not to mention the interaction between various minerals, one needing the other for the full benefit of both and the antagonistic affect one in an excessive amount may be having on another. This is the reason for mixing mineral and feeding as "one" element rather than dozens.

Id be curious as to what your cost per ton would be on a mineral if I give you the formula on it just for comparative purposes.

 

[Dave]

I have had a few tested in the past with equivocal results and did give extra selenium in the feed + injections with minimal, if any improvement with retained placentas. Nesikep, the cows have hardly touched any of the other minerals - including the selenium. My calving season isn't done, but so far, no retained placentas. What I paid for the initial minerals was basically the same cost as a pallet of whichever, latest, greatest mineral that I have purchased in the past and cheaper than at least 2. This seems simple and old fashioned to me and may not work. It has been interesting thus far and since I have only had to order magnesium and phosphorus for the next couple of months, it appears it is going to cost me less. With the seasonal changes, consumption of the other minerals may increase with a resultant increase in cost. I will try to update this thread periodically. This approach will either be cost effective or not, but thus far the experiment is revealing optimistic results which is much better than my previous disappointments.

I'm just afraid by doing this and allowing the cattle to determine what taste best and eating that while neglecting the other minerals you're running a risk of having cattle deficient in some minerals while others could literally be reaching toward toxic levels, not to mention the interaction between various minerals, one needing the other for the full benefit of both and the antagonistic affect one in an excessive amount may be having on another. This is the reason for mixing mineral and feeding as "one" element rather than dozens.

Id be curious as to what your cost per ton would be on a mineral if I give you the formula on it just for comparative purposes.

X2

 

[WalnutCrest]

On the surface, one of the benefits of feeding minerals in this manner is that each man's pasture / feed is different from another ... especially those who rely more heavily on grass/hay for inputs. This approach would allow someone's cattle to 'fix their own problem' in this free-choice approach, rather than risk overdoing it on one or two minerals just so they could get to a subsistence level on another via ingesting a pre-made, formulaic mineral.

For the record, I'm using a pre-made formulaic mineral ... but, do find this approach more than a little interesting given our grass focus.

 

[TexasBred]

On the surface, one of the benefits of feeding minerals in this manner is that each man's pasture / feed is different from another ... especially those who rely more heavily on grass/hay for inputs. This approach would allow someone's cattle to 'fix their own problem' in this free-choice approach, rather than risk overdoing it on one or two minerals just so they could get to a subsistence level on another via ingesting a pre-made, formulaic mineral.

For the record, I'm using a pre-made formulaic mineral ... but, do find this approach more than a little interesting given our grass focus.

That won't happen. They eat what tastes the best usually while not meeting any of their real needs for other minerals. Another draw back is that many of these minerals come in several different forms and different concentrations so you really have no idea how much they're getting. Or put as a quesiton "How much actual zinc is in 1 ounce of zinc sulfate, how much is in one ounce of zinc oxide, how much is in one ounce of Zinc Methionine Complex and how much is in one ounce of Zinc Amino Acid Complex and what is the bioavailability of each??????