In over my head...

[VC Rancher]

It usually takes a lot to get me to this point because I'm not one to quit easily but I've had to admit to myself that I really don't know what to do. Maybe you can help?

I purchased two heifers (Dexters) in October of 2010 that were both suppose to be bred (I'll get to that in a moment). I hauled them from out of state (2000 mile round trip) and got them set up in their pen (24' x 24'). The older heifer (2.5 years) immediately started ramming the younger heifer (1.5 years) and chasing her around the pen, ramming her in the side relentlessly. I finally separated them after a couple days...just couldn't stand to watch her get beat up.

With a pipe corral panel between them now, they seemed to get along better, at least the older heifer couldn't get to the younger heifer. Time passed and because of some suspicions, I had them both preg checked...neither of them were bred. Devastated, we contacted the breeder and she offered to change one heifer out for a cow calf pair. I just got back this morning from doing that. But I am getting ahead of myself.

I had put out the younger heifer to pasture but kept the older one in the pen, because I was going to take her back. Before I went through all that, I wanted to make sure that they didn't get along, even though they had stood next to each other in the pen for 3 months before I moved the younger one to pasture. So I brought the older one down to the same paddock in the pasture as the younger one and the older one spent the next 2 hours trying to ram and chase the younger one. That settled it...the older one was definitely going back. As I mentioned, I just brought down the cow calf pair yesterday and pulled in this morning, put them in the pen, and gave them food and water. The 1.5 year old heifer was out in the pasture.

I'm guessing it would be wise for me to share that the calf (a steer) is 7 months old and still nursing, though hardly. We are going to start milking the cow and get her production back up. The cow is 3 years old and most likely recently bred (in the last two months). In an effort to introduce the pair to the heifer, I brought the heifer up out of the pasture and into the pen. Immediately the mom and calf started ramming and chasing the heifer. She got a small cut on her ass from the fresh nipped horns of the cow. I tied up the cow to start halter training her and give the heifer a break. What was interesting to me was that the calf, though half the heifer's size, was chasing and ramming the heifer and the heifer won't stand up to the steer. As I write this post, the pair is tied up and learning not to pull on the rope while the heifer is freely walking around the pen. I am going to take her back to the pasture when I untie them after finishing this post.

here is my problem. I have a small field of 2 acres that I have created small paddocks of various sizes depending on the stand. The plan was to keep all the cattle together and move them around every day or so and just pull off the cow to milk a couple times a day. I can't do that if they relentlessly beat on the heifer. I thought the problem was the heifer I took back, but now it may just be that the 1.5 year old heifer is unwilling to defend itself and so is begging to get beat up.

Yes, these are the only cattle I have and yes these are my first cattle. I have contacted the breeder and she is not helpful. I don't want to say who it is because of the universally and permanently public nature of the web.

So here are my questions:

1) Any ideas on how to have them all get along?
2) Should I wean the calf now and separate them?
3) What am I missing?
4) Is there any hope for me?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jtbakv]

I would assume that the steer is eating hay and feed now if that is so I would wean the steer. I dont think I would be milking the cow for a calf that old.
2 acres is enough for 1 mature cow I wouldn't think it would support 3 unless you plan on feeding hay most of the time. I would leave the whole field open so they could move around more.
Did the heifer butt the younger at the breeders place?
I have seen cows butt others but usually during feeding times and new cows introduced to new surrounding will chase each other for a little while until they get used to each other and determined whos the boss cow. but I haven't seen cows act this way for long periods of time (days) You may have already done this but I would put them together for a couple of days and see if it stops if its continuious I would seperate them until sale day and ship the heifer. jmo

 

[VC Rancher]

jtbakv,

Thanks for your response. These cows get to be about 700 pounds so you can typically put 2 full grown per acre. I don't know if the old heifer butted the younger at the breeders place. But I'm guessing not, because they were together with about 20 other cows in a sorting pen. The way that the cow rams the heifer, I'm concerned for the heifer's health. It was out of breath and very tired after being chased around and drilled in the side for 45 minutes straight. I was also thinking of separating the calf from the mom and putting the calf down on the field with the heifer while I start milking the cow, for our family not the calf. I was planning on AI "ing" the heifer this month, doesn't sound like you think that is a good idea.

 

[djinwa]

I'm still trying to comprehend that you've driven 4000 miles for these cows.

Hard to say on the beating up problem. They may get past it once the pecking order is established. Or keep them separate until the young heifer gets older and more equal. Or as suggested, keep the whole 2 acres open so the heifer can distance herself if she wants. Of course horns make quite a difference in status. Does the heifer have them?

 

[VC Rancher]

Djinwa,

Thanks for your thoughts. The heifer does have horns...apparently nobody has told her though. I get the idea of the heifer getting older, but why does she let the steer half her size push her around? Mind that she does this even when the cow is tied up so she can't defend the calf.

 

[dun]

The heifer is pretty obviously a timid bottom of the pecking order heifer. She'll probably alwasy lag just a bit form the others and will take crap from everyone else no matter what. She very well always need special care from you.

 

[jkwilson]

Bottom line is that they've got to sort it out. Cows have to know where they are in the pecking order, and they'll push until one backs down. A confined area like a pen isn't the place for it to happen. The meeker animal needs a place to turn tail and run.

 

[Isomade]

Bottom line is that they've got to sort it out. Cows have to know where they are in the pecking order, and they'll push until one backs down. A confined area like a pen isn't the place for it to happen. The meeker animal needs a place to turn tail and run.

:nod:

 

[djinwa]

Bottom line is that they've got to sort it out. Cows have to know where they are in the pecking order, and they'll push until one backs down. A confined area like a pen isn't the place for it to happen. The meeker animal needs a place to turn tail and run.

This would explain to my wife why I spend so much time outside.

Like dun said, it's probably the way she is. I think each individual is programmed to be a certain status. Some will get picked on until the others get tired of it, just like with the bullies at school.

 

[plumber_greg]

I would suggest you wean the calf, and dry the cow up. Get her preg checked, remember she can't milk forever without having a calf, and needs a dry period. gs

 

[Ryder]

They are doing it because they can.
I would get a whip or stick or axe handle and let them know that they are not the boss animals and I don't like their behaviour. In other words take some of the startch out. Would have to do it at a time the are doing it.Maybe more than once, in a vigorous way like you mean it. (Yet in a kind and loving way , you ;-) understand .)

It may not do any good, but yet it may. Would make me feel better anyway.

 

[VC Rancher]

Thanks everyone. I am going to put a weaning ring on the calf, hopefully today, and start working on milking the cow. I know she needs a period of dry, but as I understand it, it only needs to be about 3 months before then next calf and she was bred in December or January so I've got a good 6 to 7 months before I would have to dry her out. The calf is still nursing a good 3 minutes or so in the morning and is eating hay and drinking water so I think he's ready to wean without much stress, which is important to me.

As far as getting everyone to like each other, I'm a bit mixed. My pasture is still developing. In parts I just have a cover of annual rye until I can get warmer weather and my argentine bahia and brown millet mix in the ground. So I need to be able to keep them in sections of the field right now at least until every part of the pasture is up to speed. So, I'm still thinking about what everyone has said here. What do you think would happen if I put the calf with the heifer out in the pasture and then brought the mother down later when she didn't feel the need to defend her calf, cause it was weaned? So in the this scenario, I would wean the calf, then move the calf down to the pasture in a few weeks, then bring the cow down a couple weeks after that.

A few things that will have to happen for the above to work. I've got to get the calf halter trained so I can train him to the electric fence, in case he gets out of the paddock area. I am working on that...hand fed the calf and the cow this morning and they warmed up nicely to me by the end of the first flake. I was able to pet the cow with my hand by the end and the calf was eating out of my hand.

Look forward to your thoughts and thanks again for your help...it also helps me just explaining things.

 

[dun]

To train the calf to a hot wire if you just set up a maze sort of deal that it has to go through to get to water it will learn real quick about hot wire. At that age all it should take is a couple of zaps and it will be done.

 

[alisonb]

I would get a whip or stick or axe handle and let them know that they are not the boss animals and I don't like their behaviour.

I must remember this advice the next time I have a problem, I think it's called 'beating the shite out of something in a nice way' ;-) .

 

[1982vett]

Thanks everyone. I am going to put a weaning ring on the calf, hopefully today, and start working on milking the cow. I know she needs a period of dry, but as I understand it, it only needs to be about 3 months before then next calf and she was bred in December or January so I've got a good 6 to 7 months before I would have to dry her out. The calf is still nursing a good 3 minutes or so in the morning and is eating hay and drinking water so I think he's ready to wean without much stress, which is important to me.

As far as getting everyone to like each other, I'm a bit mixed. My pasture is still developing. In parts I just have a cover of annual rye until I can get warmer weather and my argentine bahia and brown millet mix in the ground. So I need to be able to keep them in sections of the field right now at least until every part of the pasture is up to speed. So, I'm still thinking about what everyone has said here. What do you think would happen if I put the calf with the heifer out in the pasture and then brought the mother down later when she didn't feel the need to defend her calf, cause it was weaned? So in the this scenario, I would wean the calf, then move the calf down to the pasture in a few weeks, then bring the cow down a couple weeks after that.

A few things that will have to happen for the above to work. I've got to get the calf halter trained so I can train him to the electric fence, in case he gets out of the paddock area. I am working on that...hand fed the calf and the cow this morning and they warmed up nicely to me by the end of the first flake. I was able to pet the cow with my hand by the end and the calf was eating out of my hand.

Look forward to your thoughts and thanks again for your help...it also helps me just explaining things.

You are not listening!!! She is not "defending" a 7 month old calf... She is fighting for "her" turf and status in the herd...."bullying". So is the 7 month old calf, "bullying". Fact of the bovine world just as it is across all species of life. SO...quite frankly you have got the cart before the horse. What? :shock: Plain and simple, you do not have a large enough space to put three animals... You have place to put one or a pair. Even in time the mama cow will butt her own calf off in a weaning process and will continue to do so until he is big enough to claim dominancy at which time SHE will be on the losing end of the "bullying".

 

[SRBeef]

Only point I would add is to suggest you do any further dealings with a reputable LOCAL breeder.

You bought these "bred"... how did they know they were bred? were they not preg checked by a vet before you made the 2000 mi round trip?

Getting started especially, find someone more local you can trust and follow their advice. No reputable breeder is going to sell you cows as "bred" without having them checked. Even the sale barns check them. Or at least let you know they have or have not been checked.

What are you going to do for a bull for next season???

Good luck.

Jim

 

[VC Rancher]

To train the calf to a hot wire if you just set up a maze sort of deal that it has to go through to get to water it will learn real quick about hot wire. At that age all it should take is a couple of zaps and it will be done.

Dun,

I have found that because I use wire it seems to be hard for them to see. So when I have not taken them out and "shown" them where it was (in all places), they ran right through it when they got scared. After I would show them, they never bothered it again.

 

[dun]

To train the calf to a hot wire if you just set up a maze sort of deal that it has to go through to get to water it will learn real quick about hot wire. At that age all it should take is a couple of zaps and it will be done.

Dun,

I have found that because I use wire it seems to be hard for them to see. So when I have not taken them out and "shown" them where it was (in all places), they ran right through it when they got scared. After I would show them, they never bothered it again.

If they're scared enough they'll run right through it anyway. Remember that hot wire isn;t a physical fence it's a mental fence.

 

[VC Rancher]

Dun,

I understand, just telling you what my experience has been so far. The thing I love about electric fence is that it only took me 15 minutes to get it up and running again. I use the fence as a subdivider. I have a hard perimeter fence that keeps everything from leaving the property.

 

[Suzie Q]

It is called a pecking order.

Have bulls in together and take 2 out to a Show for a couple of days. Bring them back and they will fight.

We have animals in different paddocks. They see each other over the fences. If we change some into the bigger herd or whatever. They will fight.

If after a while we take them out of that paddock and put them back in the first paddock, they will fight again.

The bigger, heavier animal usually wins.

We have 100 acres. We have never had a beast hurt. touchwood.