I'm Only Buying Black Angus Cows Going Forth

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What I don't get is why buyers pay more for the 400-500 calves than for the 500 to 600 or 600 and up. You'd think that a stocker would have to keep a calf less time in his corrals to graduate it to the feedlot. This is last week's market report.

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Selling lighter calves actually pencils out better for us when using all costs of the cow throughout the year. Here is why the last 4-5 years we have sold lighter calves. We have sold to same buyer last 4 years. We get a premium above highest price of average of two closest auctions from the last weeks sale. Which means we decide when to sell and know how much we are getting. Selling early leaves more forage available . Cow gains weight on forage . Both those factors mean we have to feed less hay to that cow throughout the winter. Have you looked at the cost of feed lately. When you feed 100-120 days a year? $200-300 dollars a ton hay . If you reduce the amount of feed you feed a cow even by 1/2 Ton that is $100-150 savings. Doesn't take long to pencil out better to sell light when you add in additional price per lb , additional forage that can increase carrying capacity, reduced amount of hay fed to cow.
Well in that case it's a matter of managing your calving season to wean heavy calves and sell them before you need to feed your cows.

Of course I've never paid for hay to begin with. I rotate my pastures so I can cut hay, always done it on shares so I have no equipment costs, and fill the barn so there is no weather damage and every bit of hay can go to the cows.
 
Thanks @cattleman99. I don't like any of the reds either. They were sort of a beginners mistake, but you have a great point on the dink calves. Yes, the momma of the black heifer calved at the end of October, another black calve. Would you cull now or in spring after they put on more weight and drop their calves? I'll need to get about 2 extra round bales a piece to get them through the rest of winter.
If you can profit on them now take the money and run or cut your losses. Based on what you showed there is no grow in those genetics. Let someone else feed them.
 
What I don't get is why buyers pay more for the 400-500 calves than for the 500 to 600 or 600 and up. You'd think that a stocker would have to keep a calf less time in his corrals to graduate it to the feedlot. This is last week's market report.

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In many cases it has to do with the futures price in the month either going into the feedlot or coming out of the feedlot. Price is not constant.
Example, January 2023 feeder futures are 1.84, May 2023 is 1.94, and November is 2.09. That is 25 cents a lb difference. That's a wide spread to compare but it gives you an example. Which month would you want them to be ready to sell.
 
In many cases it has to do with the futures price in the month either going into the feedlot or coming out of the feedlot. Price is not constant.
Example, January 2023 feeder futures are 1.84, May 2023 is 1.94, and November is 2.09. That is 25 cents a lb difference. That's a wide spread to compare but it gives you an example. Which month would you want them to be ready to sell.
This is one of the reasons why most people manage their calving season to wean calves in the fall.
 
Well in that case it's a matter of managing your calving season to wean heavy calves and sell them before you need to feed your cows.

Of course I've never paid for hay to begin with. I rotate my pastures so I can cut hay, always done it on shares so I have no equipment costs, and fill the barn so there is no weather damage and every bit of hay can go to the cows.
I guess that makes sense if you use creative accounting. To me value of hay is the same weather i put it up myself or buy it. Cost of hay is based on the value of hay could be sold for if I put it up.
If you are feeding hay due to weather 120 days a year calving earlier only increased loss not profit. Calving cows in cold temp not only increases Feed requirements but also increases death loss , sick and non thriving calves as well as time spent managing, increased infrastructure ect.
 
I guess that makes sense if you use creative accounting. To me value of hay is the same weather i put it up myself or buy it. Cost of hay is based on the value of hay could be sold for if I put it up.
If you are feeding hay due to weather 120 days a year calving earlier only increased loss not profit. Calving cows in cold temp not only increases Feed requirements but also increases death loss , sick and non thriving calves as well as time spent managing, increased infrastructure ect.
No creative accounting necessary...

I take your point about the value of hay. I agree completely. Which is why I sell steers in the fall before I have to feed them hay. As said, hay is too valuable to feed to animals if the numbers can't be justified. As for early calving... I've never had problems calving in early spring with snow on the ground. Did it in Arkansas as well as South Dakota. The worst weather for calving I've experienced was early spring after the snows were gone. Cold rain and wind. If a calf is born in February on snow it's less inclined to pick up something from dirt and by the time the rains come it's big enough to handle it. But that's just my own experience. Lot's of ways to skin a cat...
 
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What I don't get is why buyers pay more for the 400-500 calves than for the 500 to 600 or 600 and up. You'd think that a stocker would have to keep a calf less time in his corrals to graduate it to the feedlot. This is last week's market report.

View attachment 24746

Timing has everything to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
 
They all sucked, but in my opinion the best ones were 2 and 3 which were red. I'm not complaining about how little I got for the lot, which is more than what I was expecting. I merely making the observation in price difference between the one black and the 4 red. I'll see if I can get a recent picture.
I believe your red angus were the better cattle too. This has been an eye opener...as I'm leaning towards re-grouping my 60%black-40%red angus herd over to predominately red...for two reason...red angus can tolerate heat better and secondly, more importantly...the red angus ARE healthier fighters and eaters...they aren't picky as the black angus and will eat the undesirable weeds too, even nip at cedar ends/berries. Sure i want higher dollar at the sale barn...but my Red Angus perform much better in Texas. I'm not converting over...rather, the sale barn buyers need to catch-up and realize there's absolutely no difference in red or black angus meat...and they will be getting more meat on the bones with red Angus...and they possess more tastier beef as they are the ones with broad spectrum of diversified tastes out on the ranch-lands.
In my experience in Texas...Red Angus will outweigh and outperform Black Angus (step-sisters and brothers) born on same date.
 
I heard from some guys Red Angus is trying to make a big push in the south. I'm ready. We have seen Red Angus out on Gertz, Beefmaster, etc with a lot of success. Look at the King Ranch.

My preference at this point is red cows with Black Angus bulls. The red will perform better in the tougher conditions. We have to watch where our black bulls come from and have to breed in the cooler months. We may have Brahman, Hereford, and BA bulls as well as cows at the same time. You can see the difference in hustle, heat tolerance, and flies.

The day I can run Red Angus and get the price I will jump ship in a heart beat.

My family is probably about to try a RA on BM this year. I'm looking forward to seeing it first hand.
 
I'm not converting over...rather, the sale barn buyers need to catch-up and realize there's absolutely no difference in red or black angus meat...and they will be getting more meat on the bones with red Angus...and they possess more tastier beef as they are the ones with broad spectrum of diversified tastes out on the ranch-lands.
Blasphemy!!
;)
 
I'm not converting over...rather, the sale barn buyers need to catch-up and realize there's absolutely no difference in red or black angus meat...and they will be getting more meat on the bones with red Angus...and they possess more tastier beef as they are the ones with broad spectrum of diversified tastes out on the ranch-lands.
Buyers come in two general groups. Traders and order buyers. Traders buy low and sell high somewhere else. Order buyers work for someone else on a commission or salary. They buy what they are told to buy and pay what they are told to pay. If a feedlot wants a certain type, color, sex weight and gives you a maximum amount to pay, that is what you do. Ship them what they want or you will be looking for a job next week.
 
Buyers come in two general groups. Traders and order buyers. Traders buy low and sell high somewhere else. Order buyers work for someone else on a commission or salary. They buy what they are told to buy and pay what they are told to pay. If a feedlot wants a certain type, color, sex weight and gives you a maximum amount to pay, that is what you do. Ship them what they want or you will be looking for a job next week.
That reminds me of a story. Years ago a cow plant from California sent a very flamboyant character to buy kill cows out our BC Livestock sales. This fellow came complete with gold rings, high top boots with pants inside and a big ceegar. He was a very active buyer for about a month when one day at WL his ring phone ( before cell phones) rang and he picked up. 30 seconds later he hung up the phone, stood up with his hand raised and stopped the sale.
He said, " It's been real nice knowin all you fellers and supporting this auction company but I done been fired and I am on my way home."
The cattle he bought that day sat a week and were resold the following week as they had not been paid for. The Co op lost a bit of money and gained a story.
 
I heard from some guys Red Angus is trying to make a big push in the south. I'm ready. We have seen Red Angus out on Gertz, Beefmaster, etc with a lot of success. Look at the King Ranch.

My preference at this point is red cows with Black Angus bulls. The red will perform better in the tougher conditions. We have to watch where our black bulls come from and have to breed in the cooler months. We may have Brahman, Hereford, and BA bulls as well as cows at the same time. You can see the difference in hustle, heat tolerance, and flies.

The day I can run Red Angus and get the price I will jump ship in a heart beat.

My family is probably about to try a RA on BM this year. I'm looking forward to seeing it first hand.
You can run red Angus now and get the price you want...just use black bulls. 2 is not a big enough sample to be representative, but a friend bought a Braford and a f1 BR x Her, that were bred to a red angus bull. When they calved both looked like Gerts or Red Brangus, Neither had a bald face. He loves red cattle, and has that f1 Br x Herf, a couple of Gerts, 2 red Brangus . 2 Brafords and 3 BMs. He uses a Brangus bull, and they all have black calves, but sometimes that f1 and one of the Brafords will throw a bwf. You can not tell the solid ones from pure Brangus. They gonna calve in February, and right now he is thinking on using a red Brangus on them this time. If he does, will be interesting to see if those 2 that have bwf calves will have rwf calves and if the others have solid red.
 
You can run red Angus now and get the price you want...just use black bulls. 2 is not a big enough sample to be representative, but a friend bought a Braford and a f1 BR x Her, that were bred to a red angus bull. When they calved both looked like Gerts or Red Brangus, Neither had a bald face. He loves red cattle, and has that f1 Br x Herf, a couple of Gerts, 2 red Brangus . 2 Brafords and 3 BMs. He uses a Brangus bull, and they all have black calves, but sometimes that f1 and one of the Brafords will throw a bwf. You can not tell the solid ones from pure Brangus. They gonna calve in February, and right now he is thinking on using a red Brangus on them this time. If he does, will be interesting to see if those 2 that have bwf calves will have rwf calves and if the others have solid red.
I'm talking bulls. I'm not swapping any cows out. We already have red cows.

The last group we hauled in Dec rang the bell in two weight classes. Black steers out of red mommas and BA bulls. It's the best combo I have found.

I'm a believer in crossing cattle.
 
I'm talking bulls. I'm not swapping any cows out. We already have red cows.

The last group we hauled in Dec rang the bell in two weight classes. Black steers out of red mommas and BA bulls. It's the best combo I have found.

I'm a believer in crossing cattle.
I mis-read, And you are right about red cows and black bulls. Yes, no one has to sell all their cows and get Angus, just like breeders didn't have to turn their breed into part Angus. All that is needed is a good Angus, or down here, Brangus, bull/ Neighbor a 1/4 mile down the road from me has raised Brangus cattle for 30 years I guess. Starting about 2015 or so I noticed a red cow in the pasture,. Couple of months later , another. He was buying up red Brangus because they are a litt;e cheaper. Each year there a few more....red Angus, Gerts and BMs. ALL calves are black and polled, indistiguishable from the black Brangus cows' calves.
 

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