high quality herd fast?

[ez14]

i just read a idea for a high quality herd with out paying a alot for your animals i was wondering what you guys thought of it so hear it is (if i understand it right)

So you buy lots of breeding age heifers and put them in with a high quality bull for 21 days all of the ones that breed you keep and the rest grow wheels

 

[Aaron]

As long as your buying the best heifers out of the yard, not someone's 2nds or 3rds at a barn, then I will agree with you. But your going to be spending a fair dollar for those animals and the bull too. So if you think it can be done cheaply, then that is a pipe dream.

 

[ez14]

As long as your buying the best heifers out of the yard, not someone's 2nds or 3rds at a barn, then I will agree with you. But your going to be spending a fair dollar for those animals and the bull too. So if you think it can be done cheaply, then that is a pipe dream.

I dont have the funds to do it yet myself it was just an idea i read and thought it was very interesting

 

[Hunter]

Could potentially save money if you went the AI route. Give the heifer two chances to take and if she doesn't then sell her.
If you start with 20 heifers and 60% take the first time and another 60% the next you would be left with 16 or 17 bred heifers. Hopefully you end up with at least 15 calves.

Let's say open heifers cost you $1,300 a head. 20 X 1,300 = $26,000.
In my little experience a good Angus heifer bull will run you $3,500+.
Or you could AI for about $1,400. (20 head first round and 8 the second)

This scenario will cost you $27,400 minimum and does not include any other expenses.
How much could you sell these calves for?

Hopefully I am not that far off with my numbers.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'd probably go 45 days, but it's not a bad idea.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't know how well that would pan out... Why not buy 8 year old cows in decent condition and do the same, You can see more of what kind of calf you get looking at an 8 year old than a heifer...

But if you're going through that kind of hassle and expense, why not put embryos in to some decent proven older cows, then you have registered stock with EPD's and all, and after 2 years of that you can sell the old cows, AI the calves you've gotten or breed them to one of the calves that was good enough to keep as a bull, and you're well on your way to having a good herd.. No, of course that won't be cheap either, but I think it's the fastest way to get the best genetics into the herd.

 

[Muddy]

Cheapest way would be buying quality bulls.

 

[Jessica06]

Cheapest way would be buying quality bulls.

:nod:

 

[bmoore87]

If you have a feed yard nearby see if they buy groups of heifers from breeders localy or from a ranch then you pay them a certain amount over their market price if they would let you pick out the top end for replacements.

Some yards do that when they get a nice group breed them and whatever isn't stuck at preg check goes through the feed yards.

 

[SJB]

I don't know squat about cows. But an old man I respect told me this is true about anything in life:

You can do it right, cheap, or fast. Pick any two.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Step 0 -- Decide what you want to do, and WHY! And find a small handful of people you think you can trust who have experience doing what (or at least some part of what) you'd like to try to do. This step might take a couple of years to really think through. It took me almost 3.5 years.

...then...

Step 1 -- Buy cattle from operations that raise them as hard or harder than you do.
Step 2 -- Start with proven older cows -- don't need to learn about calving problems while you're trying to learn everything else there is to learn with cattle.
Step 3 -- Run tight breeding windows -- I like the idea of AI'ing and running a bull for a short window of time; if you don't want to AI, then maybe expand your window a bit.
Step 4 -- Cull hard and keep a sharp knife.
Step 5 -- Don't forget what you're trying to accomplish as you're in the middle of doing what you set out to do.

Good luck!

 

[shortybreeder]

Another way to get a high quality and uniform herd fast (possibly a little cheaper than your scenario, but still not "cheap") would be: Buy yourself a really good proven donor cow, invest in sexed semen (or use Reverse-Sorted with IVF) from a really good proven bull, flush the crap out of her, and implant embryos. You could either buy cheap sales barn cows to put them in, or set up an embryo coop with a good operator.

 

[Muddy]

Another way to get a high quality and uniform herd fast (possibly a little cheaper than your scenario, but still not "cheap") would be: Buy yourself a really good proven donor cow, invest in sexed semen (or use Reverse-Sorted with IVF) from a really good proven bull, flush the crap out of her, and implant embryos. You could either buy cheap sales barn cows to put them in, or set up an embryo coop with a good operator.

That would be moronic move to put embryos in cheap sale barn cows.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Another way to get a high quality and uniform herd fast (possibly a little cheaper than your scenario, but still not "cheap") would be: Buy yourself a really good proven donor cow, invest in sexed semen (or use Reverse-Sorted with IVF) from a really good proven bull, flush the crap out of her, and implant embryos. You could either buy cheap sales barn cows to put them in, or set up an embryo coop with a good operator.

That would be moronic move to put embryos in cheap sale barn cows.

Unless you were getting a bajillion embryos per flush / aspiration and weren't too concerned with conception rates.

 

[Muddy]

Another way to get a high quality and uniform herd fast (possibly a little cheaper than your scenario, but still not "cheap") would be: Buy yourself a really good proven donor cow, invest in sexed semen (or use Reverse-Sorted with IVF) from a really good proven bull, flush the crap out of her, and implant embryos. You could either buy cheap sales barn cows to put them in, or set up an embryo coop with a good operator.

That would be moronic move to put embryos in cheap sale barn cows.

Unless you were getting a bajillion embryos per flush / aspiration and weren't too concerned with conception rates.

Or diseases & vet bills.

If you want embryos, put them in proven and reliable cows with background. Cheap sale barn cows are cheap for a reason.

But it's much easier to buy best bulls and keep daughters out of them.

 

[bball]

Another way to get a high quality and uniform herd fast (possibly a little cheaper than your scenario, but still not "cheap") would be: Buy yourself a really good proven donor cow, invest in sexed semen (or use Reverse-Sorted with IVF) from a really good proven bull, flush the crap out of her, and implant embryos. You could either buy cheap sales barn cows to put them in, or set up an embryo coop with a good operator.

Stupid question possibly, but i need to ask. When you guys flush the crap out of a great cow, is she any good for future breeding, or is she 'used up'?

 

[Nesikep]

Buying a quality bull is definitely a way to get a quality herd, but it's DEFINITELY not fast.. Depending on what you're starting wtih, I'd say you'd need a minimum of 3 generations, and possibly up to 6 to get something to be proud of using only the bulls as the 'quality improvers'

How do I know? We started out with a bunch of pretty crappy cows.. I have a few that are 3rd generation and they're pretty good, other lines are starting generation 7 by the time I feel they're pretty good overall

 

[Muddy]

Nesi, depends on what is your definition of quality bulls but with six generations you must not doing something right. Some bulls can improve the herd in one generation, depends on what traits you're looking for. But if the herd has more than just three breeds OR if they have more breeds in their makeup, then the bulls may not working on them very good.

 

[ez14]

where i read this the main focus was on fertility (that's why you only give them 21 days) and that forces the "cream to rise" as he put it

i'm not experienced enough to say whether i think fertility is the "fix all" trait like i've seen some people say but it's for sure a good one to select for and i've seen some good argument for it

 

[Rafter S]

where i read this the main focus was on fertility (that's why you only give them 21 days) and that forces the "cream to rise" as he put it

i'm not experienced enough to say whether i think fertility is the "fix all" trait like i've seen some people say but it's for sure a good one to select for and i've seen some good argument for it

I don't consider fertility, or any other trait, to be"fix all", but it is the one I start with. As far as I'm concerned, if a cow won't have a calf every year then her other qualities don't matter.