High Concentrate Feed and Foot Disease

[Bright Raven]

I would like to get Fire Sweep, Boot Jack Bulls and Jeanne to help me on this thread. I have been talking to Branded on the dangers related to over feeding high concentrate feeds to cattle. In this thread, I would like to talk about feet.

The progenitors of cattle were forest and savanna or plains mammals. They evolved a ruminated digestive system in order to process rough forages. Over feeding high concentrate feeds can lead to physiological imbalance which can be expressed in the feet. Such as laminitis. I know Fire Sweep is very cautious about her feeding regiment to prevent later damage to her cattle's feet. The steers she raises for carcass contests and their own beef is not a concern. As a result of very heavy feeding of the steers on high concentrate feeds, their feet are trashed. It is not a function of genetics. It is a function of physiology.

I have passed this on to Branded but if Fire Sweep, Boot Jack Bulls or Jeanne can take it from here, I would like Branded to understand the risk of over feeding.

 

[True Grit Farms]

BH Angus and genetics might not be as prone to feet and hoof issues as some Simmental multipliers.

 

[Ebenezer]

There are lines of Angus that deal with it and particular sire lines.

 

[Bright Raven]

I was not implying that this is specific to ************* or anyone else.

What I want more information on is not related to the breed of cattle. It is specifically related to whether you can take an otherwise completely fit and good bloodline and destroy their feet by over feeding a high concentrate protein feed. I may very well have misunderstood this condition. As I understand it, you can take any breed of cattle and any bloodline and if you put them on a diet of high concentrate protein feed in place of forage, it will destroy their feet by unsettling the physiological balance of metabolism. This results in deformities of the coffin bone and the laminae that connect the hoof to the bone.

I thought this information might be useful to anyone who replaces too much forage in the diet with feed. I was directing this to the show folks because they use a lot of feed in conditioning show stock.

 

[Ebenezer]

Different cattle genetics will fail or respond in different ways and locations of their body. Some will bloat, some will develop acidosis, some will have feet to fail, some will grow fine, some will have joints that fail due to weigh, some will get overfat, ...

 

[Bright Raven]

Here is an article on laminitis. I have seen it in several show steers when their diet is about 80 % concentrated feed and 20 % forage. It was my understanding that it can affect any Bovine placed on an extreme diet of concentrated feed.

Being aware of this has always made me concerned about including too much feed in their diet. If I have hay that falls under 8 % crude protein, I might put out protein tubs or supplement with a general 12 % feed mix.


https://amp.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/lifestyle/laminitis-one-of-the-main-causes-of-lameness-in-cattle-27094147.html

 

[True Grit Farms]

Are you talking weeks, months or years on a high feed ration? There's a lot of cattle on feed in this country, between dairy, stockers and feed lots. It would seem like culling for bad - poor feet will fix that problem rather quickly. I guess Angus is leading the way once again.

 

[Bright Raven]

Are you talking weeks, months or years on a high feed ration? There's a lot of cattle on feed in this country, between dairy, stockers and feed lots. It would seem like culling for bad - poor feet will fix that problem rather quickly. I guess Angus is leading the way once again.

This is why I am looking for input from the show folks. It is my understanding that when cattle are on high concentrate show feeds that it can "blow their feet out". As I understand it, it is not a cullable trait because it can be induced in any animal. Fire Sweep has been the person I have heard discuss it most. I hope she gets a chance to post.

 

[wbvs58]

Ron, I had problems with a couple of 1st calf heifers just prior to calving a couple of years ago. Just before calving they got a bit lame and noticed their feet showed typical sign of laminitis. They were with the main herd and were grazing lush annual ryegrass and oats. I should have been limiting the intake more with better controlled strip grazing, the heifers were the only ones involved I guess as they tend to be in prime condition to start with with plenty of fat already as they have not had a lactation to strip it off. It took about 18 mths for their feet to grow out but are now sound. I guess it was the high protein in the forage.

Ken

 

[Bright Raven]

Ron, I had problems with a couple of 1st calf heifers just prior to calving a couple of years ago. Just before calving they got a bit lame and noticed their feet showed typical sign of laminitis. They were with the main herd and were grazing lush annual ryegrass and oats. I should have been limiting the intake more with better controlled strip grazing, the heifers were the only ones involved I guess as they tend to be in prime condition to start with with plenty of fat already as they have not had a lactation to strip it off. It took about 18 mths for their feet to grow out but are now sound. I guess it was the high protein in the forage.

Ken

Good information. That is what I wondered. Too much protein is a risk.

 

[CreekAngus]

Ron, I come from a dairy background, there is a reason the foot trimmer comes out every month to the diary, it's the high protein diet. A commercial beef ranch near me runs their cattle very much like a dairy, because they actually have a dairy as well. Their Angus have foot problems, typically growing out skis. My Dad had some foot issues with cows and he fed really hot feed, at times he would buy straw to mix in to tone it way down. Moderation always seems to be really good for everything.

 

[alisonb]

Informative read Ron -

https://www.beefresearch.ca/research-topic.cfm/acidosis-63

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Moderation is the key to just about everything.
I am not a big grain feeder to anything - other than a few steers for freezer trade and they are finished early in life - about 12-14 months of age.
High protein diets (grass or grain) have always been a threat to the health of feet. I have seen horses easily foundered. I have only seen a few cases of really bad feet on cattle - and that was with 4-H kids cattle getting shown. Absolutely horrible grown out ski's.
My biggest concern with too much grain is getting heifers too fat prior to breeding. Every milk cell that fills with fat will never produce milk for the rest of her life. So, letting heifer calves get fat can ruin her milk production the rest of her life.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I have 7 Sim cows bought from a friend who was getting out. He grained everything heavy few times a week. They all had very full briskets when they came here. Volleyballs in there It looked like.

One cow, the biggest, has feet trouble from time to time, have had to trim her feet twice now in the three ish years she has been here. Last time was this spring.

I only give a little feed in winter time. They all seem to give plenty of milk to their calves though.

So 1 of 7 has shown issue so far. I thought it may have been he feed.

 

[TexasBred]

Protein is seldom a problem but carbohydrates usually are. In most cattle feeds energy is increased by adding carbohydrates (grain) making the ration excessively acidic. Dairy rations ordinarily will contain an adequate supply of sodium bicarbonate to maintain rumen ph along with products like Zinc Methionine to improve hoof health but neither is used in most beef cow feeds. An alternative for energy would be fat but due to cost is seldom used in most cattle feeds. Cattle need long stemmed fiber sources in the diet and if fed supplements should be balanced with no less than 50% of the ration being grass/hay and the remainder being supplement. Cows laying around resting and NOT ruminating is a good indication that acidosis may be present resulting in laminitis eventually. BF's herd would be prime candidates for acidosis and eventually laminitis unless the ration is properly balanced.

 

[Bright Raven]

Protein is seldom a problem but carbohydrates usually are. In most cattle feeds energy is increased by adding carbohydrates (grain) making the ration excessively acidic. Dairy rations ordinarily will contain an adequate supply of sodium bicarbonate to maintain rumen ph along with products like Zinc Methionine to improve hoof health but neither is used in most beef cow feeds. An alternative for energy would be fat but due to cost is seldom used in most cattle feeds. Cattle need long stemmed fiber sources in the diet and if fed supplements should be balanced with no less than 50% of the ration being grass/hay and the remainder being supplement. Cows laying around resting and NOT ruminating is a good indication that acidosis may be present resulting in laminitis eventually. BF's herd would be prime candidates for acidosis and eventually laminitis unless the ration is properly balanced.

That was what I was looking for. I have heard that but wanted confirmation. Thanks for posting.

 

[farmerjan]

As was stated, dairies are notorious for feet problems; especially in cows being fed a "hot ration" that makes milk. They do feed alot of sodium bicarb to offset the acidosis, but it does manifest it's self in feet problems. Some bloodlines are much more prone to feet problems also. I am with Jeanne on worrying about heifers getting to fatty before breeding from feed. It doesn't seem to affect heifers that are little butterballs while still nursing, but from say 6-8 months to breeding you don't want to see those little fatty udders. Having had a couple of heifers that we were keeping that were on feed for show, they developed way too much overall fat, and after calving, neither was worth 10 cents as a cow. Kept both for 2 lactations and shipped them.
One other thing, cattle that do not get out of the barn, like in confinement dairies, and are on concrete all the time, with constant exposure to the urine and manure, also seem to have more feet problems than the farms that still run the cows out to pasture. It is probably a combination of less time on hard concrete being easier on joints and feet, pastures seem to wear down the hoof better or maybe it just grows slower, than totally confined animals. Maybe because they are not getting "force fed" hot rations 24/7 but get to go out and pick a bit and eat lower protein grasses to mix in their rumen?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Feed all the protein you want, only thing you're going to do is burn a hole in your pocket, and deplete their kidneys, from the high bypass of protein. High starch grains cause the real problems.

Also feeding starch to cattle on forage is some what counterintuitive when you consisder that forage and grain sit at different ends of the ph scale for proper digestion. Grain lowers ruman pH level, and forage raises the rumans ph, so feeding the two together causes the ruman ph to flip back and forth from acidic to basic, and back to acidic. Wasting a lot of energy in the process, and causing greater inefficiency. Meaning you end up having to feed more of both. If you have green grass, with plenty of nutritional value the only thing really need is a cow to graze it

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Feed all the protein you want, only thing you're going to do is burn a hole in your pocket, and deplete their kidneys, from the high bypass of protein. High starch grains cause the real problems.

Also feeding starch to cattle on forage is some what counterintuitive when you consisder that forage and grain sit at different ends of the ph scale for proper digestion. Grain lowers ruman pH level, and forage raises the rumans ph, so feeding the two together causes the ruman ph to flip back and forth from acidic to basic, and back to acidic. Wasting a lot of energy in the process, and causing greater inefficiency. Meaning you end up having to feed more of both. If you have green grass, with plenty of nutritional value the only thing really need is a cow to graze it

I was always told if you are going to grain cattle, they should be on a self feeder or hand fed 2xs a day for just this reason.

I do have experience with high protein levels causing foot issues. One of my bulls suffered serious cracks and abscesses (before I catch any flack for keeping this bull, he is proven to not pass the issue on). We never were able to determine if the cause was founder or freeze or a combination of both (all very real possibilities in this case). I have found that eliminating extra protein helped. In this instance, the animal received only grassy hay top dressed with corn or canola oil (whichever was cheapest) to put condition back on. After almost a year of close monitoring, the feet are nearly perfect again and the animal is back to a normal pasture/ hay diet and will see service again soon.

 

[TexasBred]

Feed all the protein you want, only thing you're going to do is burn a hole in your pocket, and deplete their kidneys, from the high bypass of protein. High starch grains cause the real problems.

Also feeding starch to cattle on forage is some what counterintuitive when you consisder that forage and grain sit at different ends of the ph scale for proper digestion. Grain lowers ruman pH level, and forage raises the rumans ph, so feeding the two together causes the ruman ph to flip back and forth from acidic to basic, and back to acidic. Wasting a lot of energy in the process, and causing greater inefficiency. Meaning you end up having to feed more of both. If you have green grass, with plenty of nutritional value the only thing really need is a cow to graze it

I was always told if you are going to grain cattle, they should be on a self feeder or hand fed 2xs a day for just this reason.

I do have experience with high protein levels causing foot issues. One of my bulls suffered serious cracks and abscesses (before I catch any flack for keeping this bull, he is proven to not pass the issue on). We never were able to determine if the cause was founder or freeze or a combination of both (all very real possibilities in this case). I have found that eliminating extra protein helped. In this instance, the animal received only grassy hay top dressed with corn or canola oil (whichever was cheapest) to put condition back on. After almost a year of close monitoring, the feet are nearly perfect again and the animal is back to a normal pasture/ hay diet and will see service again soon.

One of the benefits of the self feeder is that the cattle can have multiple small meals all during the day rather than slug feeding once or twice a day causing the extreme swings in rumen ph.