Heifer problems - what is it this year?

[sunnyblueskies]

We're calving since about 2 weeks and I don't know what's going on this year. Our heifers are having problems and I don't understand why?
Our animals are Commercial Charolais/Shorthorn cross (Beef shorthorn). They've been bred to a low birthweight Charolais bull (abt. 75 lbs BW) He is not new to us and we haven't had a problem with his offspring in previous years.
Our herd is fed alfalfa mix hay and they have access to Mineral trace with selenium Salt blocks at all times.
Last year was a dry year during breeding season, but we had enough pasture and they didn't have to go hungry. Winter (still ongoing) was harsh with about 5 weeks of extreme cold temperatures ( -30 Celsius average if I remember correctly)
Since we started calving I've run into problems (heifers) with calves too big or heifers putting themselves into the weirdest positions during calving, ending up pretty much upside down and stressing themselves out, needing help to get right side up again.
Or taking too much time in labour (ie. over 3 hours) and still not getting anywhere, even though this time the calf wasn't too big. There have been a few now which seemed to try so hard, but didn't get anywhere, as if the contractions simply are not strong enough.
They are not skinny cows, but they are not fat either.

I just can't figure out what the problem is.
Is anybody else out there having unexplained problems this year too?

 

[Lazy M]

My thoughts/opinions:
1.) I wouldn't breed heifers to a Charolais bull. The breed may have some lower birth rate bulls, but I don't think anyone would ever call char "heifer friendly"..
2.) Were the heifers pelvic measured? If not, you skipped a very important step for heifer selection..
3.) Why would you let a heifer stay in labor for more than an hour or so before intervening? Usually I'll step in and pull the calf within 30-45 minutes if I see one calving.

I wish you success for the rest of your calving!

 

[TCRanch]

2.) Were the heifers pelvic measured? If not, you skipped a very important step for heifer selection

And there it is!

@sunnyblueskies, you may have used this bull on heifers before with no problems, but all heifers are not created equal. Big heifers with big butts don't always mean big pelvic measurements. Even if you're keeping a heifer from a consistent, proven lineage, there's no guarantee. Got the t-shirt!

Extreme cold and lack of exercise can also contribute to dystocia.

 

[simme]

Some good comments and suggestions. But, I have also observed that when the cows and bulls are basically the same year to year, there will occasionally be years that have bad results. Higher birth weight from the same genetics. Unusually high per cent of abnormal presentations. Cows that don't want to push. Low birth weight calves that still require assistance. More calves to be pulled out of cows. I think it can be tied to a change in environment. The year after a drought seems to have more problems. Quality of forage may be different even if it appears to be same as other years. I don't think it is always as simple as bull or cow genetics or pelvic size. If you are using same or very similar genetics with abnormal results just one year, I think there are some environmental differences.

 

[gcreekrch]

Our heifer's calves are heavier this year also. Blamed partly on colder weather pumping more blood to stay warm and growing the fetus a little extra as a result.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

My thoughts/opinions:
1.) I wouldn't breed heifers to a Charolais bull. The breed may have some lower birth rate bulls, but I don't think anyone would ever call char "heifer friendly"..
2.) Were the heifers pelvic measured? If not, you skipped a very important step for heifer selection..
3.) Why would you let a heifer stay in labor for more than an hour or so before intervening? Usually I'll step in and pull the calf within 30-45 minutes if I see one calving.

I appreciate your input. If we wouldn't have had the bull already for 2 seasons prior I would agree with your point 1. No we don't measure pelvis, might have to start doing that.
Time of labor: I don't agree with you on that one. But we have to clarify first when your timer starts/ends. When do you start your half hour/45 min wait? When the bubble shows, when the water/bubble breaks?

 

[sunnyblueskies]

And there it is!

@sunnyblueskies, you may have used this bull on heifers before with no problems, but all heifers are not created equal. Big heifers with big butts don't always mean big pelvic measurements. Even if you're keeping a heifer from a consistent, proven lineage, there's no guarantee. Got the t-shirt!

Extreme cold and lack of exercise can also contribute to dystocia.

I can agree to that........ there is never a guarantee in anything.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Some good comments and suggestions. But, I have also observed that when the cows and bulls are basically the same year to year, there will occasionally be years that have bad results. Higher birth weight from the same genetics. Unusually high per cent of abnormal presentations. Cows that don't want to push. Low birth weight calves that still require assistance. More calves to be pulled out of cows. I think it can be tied to a change in environment. The year after a drought seems to have more problems. Quality of forage may be different even if it appears to be same as other years. I don't think it is always as simple as bull or cow genetics or pelvic size. If you are using same or very similar genetics with abnormal results just one year, I think there are some environmental differences.

That's what I'm wondering about.

 

[gcreekrch]

I appreciate your input. If we wouldn't have had the bull already for 2 seasons prior I would agree with your point 1. No we don't measure pelvis, might have to start doing that.
Time of labor: I don't agree with you on that one. But we have to clarify first when your timer starts/ends. When do you start your half hour/45 min wait? When the bubble shows, when the water/bubble breaks?

In our world there is no set time, some require assistance earlier than others. A lifetime of observation and a few thousand births will let you know when to intervene.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Even the same cow and the same bull can have different size calves each year. For example: one cow with the same bull 160lbs bull calf one year, then 112lbs next year; another cow- one year 117lbs and hardly 88lbs bull calf next year.
Maybe heifers calving this year had different mothers than heifers calving previoua years. Just a slight difference in genetics from the mothers side could bring more calving difficulties. Also, another question would be if this group of heifers are the same size than the previous one. Maybe these is some difference in weight, or as stated earlier- different size pelvis.
Have read somewhere that the size of the newborn calf can be influenced not just by rich diet at the end of gestation, but also of the lack of nutrients at the beginning of the gestation, as the vascular system around an embryo will get more thicker with more vessels to feed an embryo.
A nutritional, mineral defficiency also is a possible option for long tiring calvings.

 

[Lazy M]

I appreciate your input. If we wouldn't have had the bull already for 2 seasons prior I would agree with your point 1. No we don't measure pelvis, might have to start doing that.
Time of labor: I don't agree with you on that one. But we have to clarify first when your timer starts/ends. When do you start your half hour/45 min wait? When the bubble shows, when the water/bubble breaks?

I try to check heifers twice a day in calving season. Whenever I show up and see one calving I usually don't know if she just started or has been pushing for hours. If the water is broke and I see hooves, I get the chains ready. No progress in 15-20 minutes, I'm assisting.

 

[Son of Butch]

Extreme cold and lack of exercise can also contribute to dystocia.

Yes, I remember a discussion a few years ago that colder weather increases birth weights. Something about the cow increases blood flow to internal organs for warmth and the greater blood flow increases the growth rate of the gestating calf. But since the format change it's been more trouble locating old threads for me.

 

[Heronfish]

Does pelvic measuring really help?
If I am selecting that heifer based on her body composition and frame type, using her mother as an example and mating her to a heifer bull, is it worth the money?

 

[sunnyblueskies]

I try to check heifers twice a day in calving season. Whenever I show up and see one calving I usually don't know if she just started or has been pushing for hours. If the water is broke and I see hooves, I get the chains ready. No progress in 15-20 minutes, I'm assisting.

I check more often then that. Especially when I know one is looking for a 'place to lay her egg'. My timer starts too when the water breaks. I do wait longer as what you said. I was taught 1 to 1 1/2 hours after the water breaks ( for heifers) and no progress or right now if there is a problem like just one leg showing and not the other etc.
I agree though that time is just a guideline and none is like the other.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Does pelvic measuring really help?
If I am selecting that heifer based on her body composition and frame type, using her mother as an example and mating her to a heifer bull, is it worth the money?

That's how we have always done it. Never measured a pelvis, but maybe we are just not modern technical enough.
I have to add, in our heifer group we had some not as big and tall heifers and they calved no problem, no assisting.

 

[TCRanch]

Does pelvic measuring really help?
If I am selecting that heifer based on her body composition and frame type, using her mother as an example and mating her to a heifer bull, is it worth the money?

Had my heifers pelvic measured in Feb. My vet charged $6 per heifer to pelvic measure and BANGS + pre-breeding shots were $10 each. I have him come out so there was a $30 trip charge. Absolutely worth it in my world.

Body composition and frame doesn't necessarily give you the whole picture. As I mentioned previously, big heifers with big butts don't always mean big pelvic measurements. I've avoided 2 potential train wrecks from having them measured. Both were from established lineages, and I had previously retained their sisters. Both heifers were appx. 750 lbs. at 11 months, and both measured around 130-136 (don't remember exactly) and theoretically, wouldn't be able to have a 60-65 lb. calf unassisted. In the real world, they may very well have been able to calve on their own, but I choose not to take the risk of having to pull a calf or lose a heifer (or both) because I can't watch them 24/7.

 

[moses388]

I am sorry you are having troubles with heifers. While I am not, I know a guy that purchased some bred heifers and he's been having trouble as well. So you are not alone.

I think all my heifers calved unassisted, but one of them the calf was not nursing. Surprisingly the 2+ year old heifer was great to work with. She was not defensive and stood still while I helped the calf get started. It has not gone so well with some of the cows. I pulled a calf out of a 7 year old cow. She has never needed calving assistance before. The calf was a female and seemed to be a normal size. Then there is the "ancient cow." I have pulled the calf out of her for the last 3 years, but the calves were always big. This year she calved a little tiny thing one night when it was 0°F. Poor thing was froze to death when I found it in the morning. That cow is on the cull list.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Had my heifers pelvic measured in Feb. My vet charged $6 per heifer to pelvic measure and BANGS + pre-breeding shots were $10 each. I have him come out so there was a $30 trip charge. Absolutely worth it in my world.

Body composition and frame doesn't necessarily give you the whole picture. As I mentioned previously, big heifers with big butts don't always mean big pelvic measurements. I've avoided 2 potential train wrecks from having them measured. Both were from established lineages, and I had previously retained their sisters. Both heifers were appx. 750 lbs. at 11 months, and both measured around 130-136 (don't remember exactly) and theoretically, wouldn't be able to have a 60-65 lb. calf unassisted. In the real world, they may very well have been able to calve on their own, but I choose not to take the risk of having to pull a calf or lose a heifer (or both) because I can't watch them 24/7.

No I get it. Maybe something worth looking into.

 

[Heronfish]

Had my heifers pelvic measured in Feb. My vet charged $6 per heifer to pelvic measure and BANGS + pre-breeding shots were $10 each. I have him come out so there was a $30 trip charge. Absolutely worth it in my world.

Body composition and frame doesn't necessarily give you the whole picture. As I mentioned previously, big heifers with big butts don't always mean big pelvic measurements. I've avoided 2 potential train wrecks from having them measured. Both were from established lineages, and I had previously retained their sisters. Both heifers were appx. 750 lbs. at 11 months, and both measured around 130-136 (don't remember exactly) and theoretically, wouldn't be able to have a 60-65 lb. calf unassisted. In the real world, they may very well have been able to calve on their own, but I choose not to take the risk of having to pull a calf or lose a heifer (or both) because I can't watch them 24/7.

Curious, what percentage of heifers aren't passing the pelvic test?

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Calves born in cold weather tend to be larger, especially if the mother is receiving any supplemental feed in the third trimester.
Can I assume the heifers were at least 15 months at the time of conception? Normally this is adequate. Much younger and you
can run into failure to cycle back on schedule for the next calf.