Heat Detection for AI

[Bright Raven]

This has been a tough year for Artificial Insemination in my area. The estrus cycles have been affected by extremes in weather and lots of mud. When you don't have a clean-up bull and you depend totally on AI, there is a lot of incentive to get the job done. Last year was a spoiler. I stuck 13 cows out of the first 14 services. This year I have had some come back into heat.

I started early this year. I started AI on November 17th. My objective is to have all the calves on the ground by mid-October. I am breeding 17 cows and 3 heifers this season. I breed on natural heats. I only synchronize when there is a cow not having an observable heat. Then I use the 7 day CIDR protocol with heat detection.

A couple cows have exhibited suppressed estrus behavior. When a cow comes into estrus alone, there are a couple of cases when other cows did not mount. As Ken has said, "It takes 2 to tango". I have had to use secondary estrus behavior in a couple cases - checking for clear mucus, red moist vulva and watching for jumping. I use both chalk and estrotect patches. I also had a first calver come into estrus 28 days post partum. I bred her, then she came back into heat 8 days later. I bred her again. I assume the first heat was a false heat. Seems unlikely that she is cystic right after calving.

I am pushing these cows hard. Some are getting bred back only 60 days post partum. The ones that were later calving are even being pushed harder.

 

[Redgully]

Not a good idea breeding too close post calving as the uterus would still be cleaning out and you could end up with metritis. Anything under 40 days is risky. I am also 100% a.i. at the present but only breeding 7 cows so much easier to watch them all. One thing i have noticed is when cows are in the early stages of pregnancy they don't seem to engage with others when they are in heat so the last of the group can be tricky to pick. I usually write down the date from last heat and at 18 days watch really closely, if i see any sign at all i inspect closer. I also keep a couple of cows in a seperate paddock and once i am strongly suspicious she is in heat i let the other cows in and that usually triggers a response, sort of like fresh meat! If i have a cow go 60 days with no sign of heat i will give her a jab of lut and she will come in heat within the next few days. I dont like to breed on that heat but watch for the next.

 

[Bright Raven]

Not a good idea breeding too close post calving as the uterus would still be cleaning out and you could end up with metritis. Anything under 40 days is risky. I am also 100% a.i. at the present but only breeding 7 cows so much easier to watch them all. One thing i have noticed is when cows are in the early stages of pregnancy they don't seem to engage with others when they are in heat so the last of the group can be tricky to pick. I usually write down the date from last heat and at 18 days watch really closely, if i see any sign at all i inspect closer. I also keep a couple of cows in a seperate paddock and once i am strongly suspicious she is in heat i let the other cows in and that usually triggers a response, sort of like fresh meat! If i have a cow go 60 days with no sign of heat i will give her a jab of lut and she will come in heat within the next few days. I dont like to breed on that heat but watch for the next.

Worth emphasizing!

I keep a record of all estrus behavior. Same as you, I start focusing on the ones due when they get close.

I agree on the 40 days. The one I bred at 38 is one that was a straggler. Trying to regroup her with the others.

 

[regolith]

short return after the first heat post-calving is relatively normal, I find.
Having numbers of cows willing to mount helps - short breeding season it shouldn't be of too much of an issue but with a longer breeding season (or open cows cycling outside of breeding season) watch to see which cows jump them - good chance those cows are open or not too far along. Most seem to lose interest entirely in mounting other cows later in pregnancy.

 

[Bright Raven]

short return after the first heat post-calving is relatively normal, I find.
Having numbers of cows willing to mount helps - short breeding season it shouldn't be of too much of an issue but with a longer breeding season (or open cows cycling outside of breeding season) watch to see which cows jump them - good chance those cows are open or not too far along. Most seem to lose interest entirely in mounting other cows later in pregnancy.

On the one with the short return - during which heat do you think a viable egg was released? The first post partum or on the short return?

 

[regolith]

I count ten day interval as two viable heats - but if one catches it will invariably be the second. Otherwise you wouldn't have seen the second... true though, if you used the same sire each time then at calving time you wouldn't actually know.

I've stopped using the same sire for following heats, even close ones (other than 2 - 3 days which usually means you mated on pre-heat signs) because of the poor fertility haplotypes being identified in the dairy breeds, and also because of a bad experience with an infertile batch of semen I had in the bank at one time.

 

[Bright Raven]

I count ten day interval as two viable heats - but if one catches it will invariably be the second. Otherwise you wouldn't have seen the second... true though, if you used the same sire each time then at calving time you wouldn't actually know.

I've stopped using the same sire for following heats, even close ones (other than 2 - 3 days which usually means you mated on pre-heat signs) because of the poor fertility haplotypes being identified in the dairy breeds, and also because of a bad experience with an infertile batch of semen I had in the bank at one time.

In fact, I did use two different sires but the heats were 8 days apart. I will not know which AI service stuck. I assumed the first heat was "false". But that was only an assumption.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Why not use the 7 day AI protocol on all your cows, breed them when the directions say to and then follow up rebreeding on observed heats. You have an excellent time line to follow and get to play with your cows even more. Seems like it would fit your style of management and enjoyment too a T.

 

[LCBulls]

One thing that has helped us detect heat better was switching to "standing heat patches" from the estrotect patches. They seem to have much less false positives. Estrotect work well but are easily scratched when they are confined in tight areas.
Not sure if the new estrotect will be better.
We also had a much more difficult breeding season last spring, with many heifers and cows having short cycles 10-12 days apart.

 

[Bright Raven]

Why not use the 7 day AI protocol on all your cows, breed them when the directions say to and then follow up rebreeding on observed heats. You have an excellent time line to follow and get to play with your cows even more. Seems like it would fit your style of management and enjoyment too a T.

Exactly what I plan to do next year.

 

[bse]

You are about to that number where to sync them will make it much easier. 1 thing that may affect it, Zoietis has another 5% price increase coming on the Jan 1( If anyone needs cidrs for spring breeding you may want to get them Monday)its getting expensive to sync cattle, that being said I bred 10 heifers this year on natural heat, never again way to time consuming, ill pay or a bull!!!!!

 

[Bright Raven]

You are about to that number where to sync them will make it much easier. 1 thing that may affect it, Zoietis has another 5% price increase coming on the Jan 1( If anyone needs cidrs for spring breeding you may want to get them Monday)its getting expensive to sync cattle, that being said I bred 10 heifers this year on natural heat, never again way to time consuming, ill pay or a bull!!!!!

I plan to sync next year. I have them serviced now except for a couple. Just picking up the misses on first service now.

 

[Putangitangi]

I count ten day interval as two viable heats - but if one catches it will invariably be the second. Otherwise you wouldn't have seen the second... true though, if you used the same sire each time then at calving time you wouldn't actually know.

I've stopped using the same sire for following heats, even close ones (other than 2 - 3 days which usually means you mated on pre-heat signs) because of the poor fertility haplotypes being identified in the dairy breeds, and also because of a bad experience with an infertile batch of semen I had in the bank at one time.

In fact, I did use two different sires but the heats were 8 days apart. I will not know which AI service stuck. I assumed the first heat was "false". But that was only an assumption.

It is in my experience always the second "heat" that is the real one. I've spent too much semen and counted enough gestations to have figured it out. The problem is that still doesn't tell me when I'm seeing the false first one in a cow! Only happens here occasionally and it's an expensive pain in the whatever.

 

[Bright Raven]

I count ten day interval as two viable heats - but if one catches it will invariably be the second. Otherwise you wouldn't have seen the second... true though, if you used the same sire each time then at calving time you wouldn't actually know.

I've stopped using the same sire for following heats, even close ones (other than 2 - 3 days which usually means you mated on pre-heat signs) because of the poor fertility haplotypes being identified in the dairy breeds, and also because of a bad experience with an infertile batch of semen I had in the bank at one time.

In fact, I did use two different sires but the heats were 8 days apart. I will not know which AI service stuck. I assumed the first heat was "false". But that was only an assumption.

It is in my experience always the second "heat" that is the real one. I've spent too much semen and counted enough gestations to have figured it out. The problem is that still doesn't tell me when I'm seeing the false first one in a cow! Only happens here occasionally and it's an expensive pain in the whatever.

I fully appreciate that. I too have wasted semen doing the guessing game.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

IMO - 1st heat is false. But, as mentioned, find out too late. Already wasted the semen 1st time around. On that note, if I have one cycle 25-30 days post calving, I will wait & Lut, then breed.
Redgully - why wouldn't you breed on a Lutalyse heat?? And, if you arbitrarily gave a shot of Lut, they may or may not respond, depending on where they are in their cycle.
The absolutely cheapest way to sync is to heat check & breed for 5 days, then give a shot of Lut on the ones not bred. "IF" your cows are cycling, they will all be in heat in a 10 day period. But, that only works IF they are already cycling.
That is true for all sync programs. A CIDR will make them show a heat, but they may not have a viable egg.

 

[Bright Raven]

The absolutely cheapest way to sync is to heat check & breed for 5 days, then give a shot of Lut on the ones not bred. "IF" your cows are cycling, they will all be in heat in a 10 day period. But, that only works IF they are already cycling.
That is true for all sync programs. A CIDR will make them show a heat, but they may not have a viable egg.

Do you know the frequency that occurs? I have set up the 7 day CIDR protocol, then heat check and breed on the heat. So far that has worked with a lot of success.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, Ron, you should get good results. I have used CIDR's successfully also. Your cows are in tip-top condition and probably are cycling 25-35 days after calving. So, your cows will have a good egg to work with.
There are many producers out there that do not have a clue what BCS there cattle are in and also do not know if they have had any natural heats prior to setting up a sync protocol. CIDR's "will" make them have a standing heat most of the time - conception results depends on whether it is their FIRST heat. It can be a good first heat, or it may not be.
If you have an animal that is in good condition and still not showing a heat, the CIDR will "kick start" her system, and the 2ND heat would be the best one to breed on.

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, Ron, you should get good results. I have used CIDR's successfully also. Your cows are in tip-top condition and probably are cycling 25-35 days after calving. So, your cows will have a good egg to work with.
There are many producers out there that do not have a clue what BCS there cattle are in and also do not know if they have had any natural heats prior to setting up a sync protocol. CIDR's "will" make them have a standing heat most of the time - conception results depends on whether it is their FIRST heat. It can be a good first heat, or it may not be.
If you have an animal that is in good condition and still not showing a heat, the CIDR will "kick start" her system, and the 2ND heat would be the best one to breed on.

Thanks. Great information. Info like that helps me tweak my operation.

 

[Putangitangi]

It is in my experience always the second "heat" that is the real one. I've spent too much semen and counted enough gestations to have figured it out. The problem is that still doesn't tell me when I'm seeing the false first one in a cow! Only happens here occasionally and it's an expensive pain in the whatever.

I fully appreciate that. I too have wasted semen doing the guessing game.

Mine are all natural heats, I never synch. Just about to start today! Calving planned for October next year.

 

[wbvs58]

Well Ron, it is nice to know you are human after all (getting some rebreeds). I have no hangups about breeding on early heats. The small dose of AI might sometimes get a bit lost in there (bigger space) and might be more suited to natural service but I don't consider it any risk. Mares are often serviced on their foal heat with good results (7-10 days post partum). I think if they are on heat they are ready to give it a go.

Ken