Do your steers make the cut?

[CattleMan1920]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZxQ_jWEHeE&fbclid=IwAR21ZWp84_Qb515Ru67Qy8rI9XLXvGhF1lo3hv4o5TAeaXIkCp5k0tX4Zm4

Thank you for sharing this excellent video, it explained a whole lot. I think a lot of producers should watch this and learn, from what I see, CAB is absolutely not a "joke", they are quite the contrary.

I believe a segment of producers think that average is good enough, but they want above-average pay for their product. That is not how it works.

 

[TCRanch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZxQ_jWEHeE&fbclid=IwAR21ZWp84_Qb515Ru67Qy8rI9XLXvGhF1lo3hv4o5TAeaXIkCp5k0tX4Zm4

Very interesting, thank you for sharing!

 

[CattleMan1920]

Boyd is the "name brand" in our part of the world and commands a higher price. I'm friends with some of the folks at Solid Rock Angus they have been around for probably 6-8 yrs. They have started having production sales over the last few years and their bulls and donors appear on par with Boyd, but haven't reached the Boyd prices yet. I think they're on their up, though, as they have part ownership (with Boyd and Deer Valley) of a pretty good looking bull on select sires line up now (old hickory; https://selectsiresbeef.com/bull/angus/deer-valley-old-hickory/)
Building a name takes a LONG time. One thing that concerns me about your operation is that you've indicated that you leave all your bulls in tact. While I can understand that this may make sense from a fiscal perspective, I think that this could ultimately be damaging to you operation's reputation. No matter how good your cattle are, there are always ones that don't niche and develop well. If you sell someone a sorry looking bull, and he tells folks where he got it, everyone he tells will have you black balled in their minds.
By the way: "no" all those names mean nothing to me. My cows could care less whose prefix is in the name of the bull that mounts them, and I don't either. :lol:

Boyd does have an excellent name, and top-notch Angus, but Stone Gate has been around for a much longer time and in my opinion have some exceptional cattle. Between Charles Cannon and his brother Jere, they have 15 Pathfinders in their herd versus 1 Pathfinder at Boyd's. Great bulls are a game changer, but great FEMALES are the NAME OF THE GAME. By comparison, SAV has 19 Pathfinders, but look at SAV versus Stone Gate, SAV has far deeper resources to make that happen. Stone Gate didn't get all those Pathfinders by sheer luck.

When Boyd Angus was established, Charles Cannon and his brother had been running Stone Gate for 40 years already, and they are still in business with a sale coming up. That's a LONG TIME in the seed stock business. As for Solid Rock, they are new on the scene, they too seem to have high quality cattle, but I would like to see the owner of the operation come forward and hear his or her breeding principles and philosophy. I think when an operation is run by a manager versus an owner that there can be a disconnect in the long term vision for an operation. When you are the owner of a business it's do or die, when you are a manager of a business, you can always find another gig. I'm not saying that the manager at SRA doesn't do an excellent job, which I'm certain he does with the way things look, but for me to consider using an AI sire, I want to see that the owner was highly invested in the process, not just monetarily.

We unfortunately have steered more than we should have over the years, and probably sent some really good animals that should have been left intact to the stockyards. We steered three bull calves from the Stone Gate Kingston bull that you have seen posted here, still regret that decision, they came from very good cows, and would have developed nicely. We were changing focus out here and did not want to develop them, a mistake in hindsight.

As far as selling "sorry looking bulls", that's never going to happen here. We have never had a bull leave here that didn't score very high on their BSE, our clients look ahead and ask advice to what bulls we have in development for two years out, so they can use them on the daughters of the bulls we have already sold them. If any of our bulls have an issue, they simply will not be sold for service, nothing more to discuss, they don't enter the equation.

If you came out here, and looked at what we have to offer, I guarantee you that you could not look me in the eye with a straight face and say "that's a sorry looking bull, you should have cut him" You rushed to judgment on us, before seeing how our bulls are developed. it's not mass production with an emphasis on how cheap we can feed them. They get the best of everything, have more room than they can use, and look excellent when they load onto the trailer off to our client's farms. Nobody has brought one back, and nobody has complained. That's success in my book.

 

[Bigfoot]

What percent of the American public understands USDA quality grades? I'd venture almost nobody. Yes, people associate CAB with a fine tasting product. It's a fine product, because it's plucked from the high end of the choice category. I feel like it takes advantage of people's gullible nature. It could have been called Tom's or Fred's or any of a thousand other names. The whole is rediculous, and has nothing to do with their first criteria.........which is to promote themselves over everybody else.

I don't know the answer to this. How "involved" are the USDA graders in the process, after the carcass is marked choice?

 

[Bright Raven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZxQ_jWEHeE&fbclid=IwAR21ZWp84_Qb515Ru67Qy8rI9XLXvGhF1lo3hv4o5TAeaXIkCp5k0tX4Zm4

Thank you for sharing this excellent video, it explained a whole lot. I think a lot of producers should watch this and learn, from what I see, CAB is absolutely not a "joke", they are quite the contrary.

I believe a segment of producers think that average is good enough, but they want above-average pay for their product. That is not how it works.

James, you mentioned calling CAB and not getting anyone on the line. I have called them twice and immediately got a person on the line. In both cases, I spoke to very helpful CAB staff. I was interested in how they market the CAB brand.

 

[Ebenezer]

do you seem to think that only YOU can breed a top animal?No but I can breed a cow that works here. That's my goal. "Top" has a lot of definitions. We use two different definitions.

I have not been on here long but it appears to me that you think that using AI, working hard to improve, and caring for your cattle is a fools errand. The real plan is to follow your advice to the letter, and only after many years if ever will we reach the level of the master, kinda like "Karate Kid" right?Your words and opinions, not mine. You play this fat cow or buzzard bait game. There is a bigger middle than your extremes.

but you....it's nothing but critical analysis, as if you are cutting and pasting from a university textbook. Poor attitude will not get you to home plate. Maybe experience is a sound teacher. Just maybe.

but you have a far deeper criticism, not just of me but others. Your opinion.But you have yet to prove that the industry needs a ton cow or obese breeding stock.

Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk. I do it without using every post to drop names, tell great bull names or promote and sell.

if that's shameless promotion so be it. The classified ad topic is locked for some reason. I assume that the board did not want to be a sales source. Here would be the better place to sell: https://cattletoday.com/bannerad.shtml

No mention of selling on the top of the blog part:

CattleToday.com
CattleToday's Q & A Boards are a Cattle Forum for swapping information and asking and answering questions about breed, health problems, beginners questions and jokes about cattle and horses.

I've seen your cattle, at least what you have posted on here and I have reserved comment for the most part, I do believe I said something, and it was positive. You on the other hand, it pains you to offer a complement. I meet people like you around here. I could have VAR Power Play sitting out in the field and they would say, not knowing who the bull is, "I've seen much better, in fact I've bred much better, his legs are wrong, his feet are bad etc." Yet unbeknownst to them it's a million dollar plus bull.I do not promote here so I only posted pictures to show type and not to sell. But I do understand body condition scores, environmental fit and animal health. No idea on the bull: I do not worship bull names and such. Too expensive!

I'm not losing any business by mentioning other Angus producers that sell around here. I don't care if a buyer heads over to Boyd's or Stone Gate, in fact we send buyers there. We don't lose when they make a sale. There is plenty of room for improvement in Kentucky cattle and MANY Angus bulls are needed to do the job. Lots of business for everyone, you have a scarcity mentality though, and think that if someone gains, then someone else had to have lost.That takes years of work to achieve and you act as if it's nothing, as if the effort was a joke.Never heard of "scarcity mentality" but thanks for the diagnosis. Doc, how long do I have to live? :???:

I mentioned a Connealy Capitalist/SAV President cross, tell me, do you think one snaps a finger and that suddenly happens, it takes years, you know that.I don't know that. It would take buying a cow or a bull bred that way or a straw of semen. Do you really believe SAV cattle and genetics are rare when they sell 450 bulls and 200 females per sale? I do not. We have a Hoover Dam daughter out of a Eurotia cow who is settled to Bubs Southern Charm, do you think that progeny will be easy to obtain? Not a real good question to me. Would I use them? No. I am just not interested in throwing around names and bull names and making a lot over cattle. I've seen it over and over again. Same thing, different folks, different decade. There are a lot of other combinations in the works right now, that I won't share yet, but they aren't something that came about lickety split.

 

[CattleMan1920]

What percent of the American public understands USDA quality grades? I'd venture almost nobody. Yes, people associate CAB with a fine tasting product. It's a fine product, because it's plucked from the high end of the choice category. I feel like it takes advantage of people's gullible nature. It could have been called Tom's or Fred's or any of a thousand other names. The whole is rediculous, and has nothing to do with their first criteria.........which is to promote themselves over everybody else.

I don't know the answer to this. How "involved" are the USDA graders in the process, after the carcass is marked choice?

They said it's called CAB because it's from predominately Angus sourced genetics. Not Tom's genetics or Fred's genetics. Would you pay a premium for a steak branded "Certified Crippled Cow of unknown breed"? It's a no brainer naming it Certified Angus Beef.

Have you tried a steak from Laura's lean beef, or Star Angus Ranch? It' like cooking up my workboot with a side of potatoes, especially Laura's, that "grass fed" label allows for them to charge more, when in fact those cattle were given far less attention overall because it's apparent in the how the beef looks and tastes. As for Star Angus Ranch, they sell it in the grocery where we are, and those steaks would need Gordan Ramsay to make them palatable.

I like Creekstone Prime Angus, it makes those other two taste like fake meat. Or try Matador meats.

https://www.matadorprimesteak.com/

 

[CattleMan1920]

do you seem to think that only YOU can breed a top animal?No but I can breed a cow that works here. That's my goal. "Top" has a lot of definitions. We use two different definitions.

I have not been on here long but it appears to me that you think that using AI, working hard to improve, and caring for your cattle is a fools errand. The real plan is to follow your advice to the letter, and only after many years if ever will we reach the level of the master, kinda like "Karate Kid" right?Your words and opinions, not mine. You play this fat cow or buzzard bait game. There is a bigger middle than your extremes.

but you....it's nothing but critical analysis, as if you are cutting and pasting from a university textbook. Poor attitude will not get you to home plate. Maybe experience is a sound teacher. Just maybe.

but you have a far deeper criticism, not just of me but others. Your opinion.But you have yet to prove that the industry needs a ton cow or obese breeding stock.

Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk. I do it without using every post to drop names, tell great bull names or promote and sell.

if that's shameless promotion so be it. The classified ad topic is locked for some reason. I assume that the board did not want to be a sales source. Here would be the better place to sell: https://cattletoday.com/bannerad.shtml

No mention of selling on the top of the blog part:

CattleToday.com
CattleToday's Q & A Boards are a Cattle Forum for swapping information and asking and answering questions about breed, health problems, beginners questions and jokes about cattle and horses.

I've seen your cattle, at least what you have posted on here and I have reserved comment for the most part, I do believe I said something, and it was positive. You on the other hand, it pains you to offer a complement. I meet people like you around here. I could have VAR Power Play sitting out in the field and they would say, not knowing who the bull is, "I've seen much better, in fact I've bred much better, his legs are wrong, his feet are bad etc." Yet unbeknownst to them it's a million dollar plus bull.I do not promote here so I only posted pictures to show type and not to sell. But I do understand body condition scores, environmental fit and animal health. No idea on the bull: I do not worship bull names and such. Too expensive!

I'm not losing any business by mentioning other Angus producers that sell around here. I don't care if a buyer heads over to Boyd's or Stone Gate, in fact we send buyers there. We don't lose when they make a sale. There is plenty of room for improvement in Kentucky cattle and MANY Angus bulls are needed to do the job. Lots of business for everyone, you have a scarcity mentality though, and think that if someone gains, then someone else had to have lost.That takes years of work to achieve and you act as if it's nothing, as if the effort was a joke.Never heard of "scarcity mentality" but thanks for the diagnosis. Doc, how long do I have to live? :???:

I mentioned a Connealy Capitalist/SAV President cross, tell me, do you think one snaps a finger and that suddenly happens, it takes years, you know that.I don't know that. It would take buying a cow or a bull bred that way or a straw of semen. Do you really believe SAV cattle and genetics are rare when they sell 450 bulls and 200 females per sale? I do not. We have a Hoover Dam daughter out of a Eurotia cow who is settled to Bubs Southern Charm, do you think that progeny will be easy to obtain? Not a real good question to me. Would I use them? No. I am just not interested in throwing around names and bull names and making a lot over cattle. I've seen it over and over again. Same thing, different folks, different decade. There are a lot of other combinations in the works right now, that I won't share yet, but they aren't something that came about lickety split.

I promise you that if I told you I had a homegrown bull and he was the best bull in the Angus breed, you would criticize him. It does not matter if one has an AI son or homegrown, nothing will ever meet your self established standards.

Also, I didn't know that there was "cattle etiquette" here. Are we in an old boys club with leather chairs and cigars, or are we in a cattle forum? Of course I will mention names, lot's of them, because I use them, so do many others. Do you want me to refer to "bull A" or "cow b"? Who the heck would ever have a reference point?

If pedigree stands for nothing why not dispose of all cattle breed organizations not just Angus, get rid of Hereford, get rid of Simmental, etc. all that paperwork is worthless, throw it in the trash, right? To many fancy names, all smoke and mirrors, commotion and promotion. Well if SAV can be in business for a century, then I doubt that is by slight of hand. Go to Angus Assoc. and see how many operations have made the century mark, much less the 50 year mark. Hint, the number is small.

As for the exclusivity of SAV, absolutely they are rare cattle. Out of the entire Angus breed and the overall cattle herd in America, their sale is a DROP IN THE BUCKET! If you have one of the top 10 SAV bulls in any of their recent sales, you can officially call yourself a top dog in the cattle business. Were you to buy one of their top cow or heifer offerings, you basically bought yourself a high grossing business, if you can collect and sell the embryos. Can you say that about your cows? If you are so egocentric to think that your homegrown special holds a candle to their breeding program, keep telling yourself that and smile in the mirror.

I can shoot a gun, but I'm no Wild Bill Hickok.

 

[Bigfoot]

What percent of the American public understands USDA quality grades? I'd venture almost nobody. Yes, people associate CAB with a fine tasting product. It's a fine product, because it's plucked from the high end of the choice category. I feel like it takes advantage of people's gullible nature. It could have been called Tom's or Fred's or any of a thousand other names. The whole is rediculous, and has nothing to do with their first criteria.........which is to promote themselves over everybody else.

I don't know the answer to this. How "involved" are the USDA graders in the process, after the carcass is marked choice?

They said it's called CAB because it's from predominately Angus sourced genetics. Not Tom's genetics or Fred's genetics. Would you pay a premium for a steak branded "Certified Crippled Cow of unknown breed"? It's a no brainer naming it Certified Angus Beef.

Have you tried a steak from Laura's lean beef, or Star Angus Ranch? It' like cooking up my workboot with a side of potatoes, especially Laura's, that "grass fed" label allows for them to charge more, when in fact those cattle were given far less attention overall because it's apparent in the how the beef looks and tastes. As for Star Angus Ranch, they sell it in the grocery where we are, and those steaks would need Gordan Ramsay to make them palatable.

I like Creekstone Prime Angus, it makes those other two taste like fake meat. Or try Matador meats.

https://www.matadorprimesteak.com/

Not to split hairs, but he said a 51% black hided animal. He went on to say an Angus type animal. The name gets the benefit, and the benefit is based on a superior selection of carcass traits. It's unfair to the rest of the industry, at the expense of many, to benefit a few. I honestly do try to be open minded, and see other peoples view point. I'm not seeing where the benefit came from the breed. The benefit to the consumer was in hand selecting a quality carcass. It gives a comparative advantage to one segment of the industry. No need to say that the animal is an angus. Literally any carcass subjected to a more stringent selection process is going to be better.

I'm not butt hurt, that it happens. I have a passion for the truth, and making sure people are educated. People have no idea what they are getting, they just know it's better. It sets off a ripple affect, that affects everybody. It would be petty to continue to make the same arguement over and over again, but the benefit is in no way due to animal being an angus. The benefit is in the marbeling.

I don't doubt for a minute, that you raise quality cattle, from a well respected breed. I will say, that you reap economic benefits from the deception of the consumer. Did you cause the deception? No. I would think, that anybody could see the deceptive nature of the program, and recognize that one mans loss is another mans gain.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZxQ_jWEHeE&fbclid=IwAR21ZWp84_Qb515Ru67Qy8rI9XLXvGhF1lo3hv4o5TAeaXIkCp5k0tX4Zm4

Thanks C C2.

 

[Bright Raven]

What percent of the American public understands USDA quality grades? I'd venture almost nobody. Yes, people associate CAB with a fine tasting product. It's a fine product, because it's plucked from the high end of the choice category. I feel like it takes advantage of people's gullible nature. It could have been called Tom's or Fred's or any of a thousand other names. The whole is rediculous, and has nothing to do with their first criteria.........which is to promote themselves over everybody else.

I don't know the answer to this. How "involved" are the USDA graders in the process, after the carcass is marked choice?

They said it's called CAB because it's from predominately Angus sourced genetics. Not Tom's genetics or Fred's genetics. Would you pay a premium for a steak branded "Certified Crippled Cow of unknown breed"? It's a no brainer naming it Certified Angus Beef.

Have you tried a steak from Laura's lean beef, or Star Angus Ranch? It' like cooking up my workboot with a side of potatoes, especially Laura's, that "grass fed" label allows for them to charge more, when in fact those cattle were given far less attention overall because it's apparent in the how the beef looks and tastes. As for Star Angus Ranch, they sell it in the grocery where we are, and those steaks would need Gordan Ramsay to make them palatable.

I like Creekstone Prime Angus, it makes those other two taste like fake meat. Or try Matador meats.

https://www.matadorprimesteak.com/

Not to split hairs, but he said a 51% black hided animal. He went on to say an Angus type animal. The name gets the benefit, and the benefit is based on a superior selection of carcass traits. It's unfair to the rest of the industry, at the expense of many, to benefit a few. I honestly do try to be open minded, and see other peoples view point. I'm not seeing where the benefit came from the breed. The benefit to the consumer was in hand selecting a quality carcass. It gives a comparative advantage to one segment of the industry. No need to say that the animal is an angus. Literally any carcass subjected to a more stringent selection process is going to be better.

I'm not butt hurt, that it happens. I have a passion for the truth, and making sure people are educated. People have no idea what they are getting, they just know it's better. It sets off a ripple affect, that affects everybody. It would be petty to continue to make the same arguement over and over again, but the benefit is in no way due to animal being an angus. The benefit is in the marbeling.

I dCAB on't doubt for a minute, that you raise quality cattle, from a well respected breed. I will say, that you reap economic benefits from the deception of the consumer. Did you cause the deception? No. I would think, that anybody could see the deceptive nature of the program, and recognize that one mans loss is another mans gain.

I don't see it like you do. I did some research on CAB. It is a marketing strategy. Completely legal, approved and permitted by the US Government. There are thousands of similar marketing strategies in other industries. As the YouTube above shows, there are 10 criteria for qualifying as CAB. BTW: there is a previous thread on this subject, maybe more. Many will continue to consider it "untruthful". It certainly is not fooling you and I because we have educated ourselves to what CAB is. When I buy it at the store, I know what I am getting. Compared to the other meats at Krogers in Maysville, it is the best meat.

Being pragmatic- it is a characteristic of capitalism. It is legal and in Capitalism, being ethical is not common.

 

[Bigfoot]

They said it's called CAB because it's from predominately Angus sourced genetics. Not Tom's genetics or Fred's genetics. Would you pay a premium for a steak branded "Certified Crippled Cow of unknown breed"? It's a no brainer naming it Certified Angus Beef.

Have you tried a steak from Laura's lean beef, or Star Angus Ranch? It' like cooking up my workboot with a side of potatoes, especially Laura's, that "grass fed" label allows for them to charge more, when in fact those cattle were given far less attention overall because it's apparent in the how the beef looks and tastes. As for Star Angus Ranch, they sell it in the grocery where we are, and those steaks would need Gordan Ramsay to make them palatable.

I like Creekstone Prime Angus, it makes those other two taste like fake meat. Or try Matador meats.

https://www.matadorprimesteak.com/

Not to split hairs, but he said a 51% black hided animal. He went on to say an Angus type animal. The name gets the benefit, and the benefit is based on a superior selection of carcass traits. It's unfair to the rest of the industry, at the expense of many, to benefit a few. I honestly do try to be open minded, and see other peoples view point. I'm not seeing where the benefit came from the breed. The benefit to the consumer was in hand selecting a quality carcass. It gives a comparative advantage to one segment of the industry. No need to say that the animal is an angus. Literally any carcass subjected to a more stringent selection process is going to be better.

I'm not butt hurt, that it happens. I have a passion for the truth, and making sure people are educated. People have no idea what they are getting, they just know it's better. It sets off a ripple affect, that affects everybody. It would be petty to continue to make the same arguement over and over again, but the benefit is in no way due to animal being an angus. The benefit is in the marbeling.

I dCAB on't doubt for a minute, that you raise quality cattle, from a well respected breed. I will say, that you reap economic benefits from the deception of the consumer. Did you cause the deception? No. I would think, that anybody could see the deceptive nature of the program, and recognize that one mans loss is another mans gain.

I don't see it like you do. I did some research on CAB. It is a marketing strategy. Completely legal, approved and permitted by the US Government. There are thousands of similar marketing strategies in other industries. As the YouTube above shows, there are 10 criteria for qualifying as CAB. BTW: there is a previous thread on this subject, maybe more. Many will continue to consider it "untruthful". It certainly is not fooling you and I because we have educated ourselves to what CAB is. When I buy it at the store, I know what I am getting. Compared to the other meats at Krogers in Maysville, it is the best meat.

Being pragmatic- it is a characteristic of capitalism. It is legal and in Capitalism, being ethical is not common.

You ever notice money ends up ruining a lot things?

 

[Bright Raven]

Not to split hairs, but he said a 51% black hided animal. He went on to say an Angus type animal. The name gets the benefit, and the benefit is based on a superior selection of carcass traits. It's unfair to the rest of the industry, at the expense of many, to benefit a few. I honestly do try to be open minded, and see other peoples view point. I'm not seeing where the benefit came from the breed. The benefit to the consumer was in hand selecting a quality carcass. It gives a comparative advantage to one segment of the industry. No need to say that the animal is an angus. Literally any carcass subjected to a more stringent selection process is going to be better.

I'm not butt hurt, that it happens. I have a passion for the truth, and making sure people are educated. People have no idea what they are getting, they just know it's better. It sets off a ripple affect, that affects everybody. It would be petty to continue to make the same arguement over and over again, but the benefit is in no way due to animal being an angus. The benefit is in the marbeling.

I dCAB on't doubt for a minute, that you raise quality cattle, from a well respected breed. I will say, that you reap economic benefits from the deception of the consumer. Did you cause the deception? No. I would think, that anybody could see the deceptive nature of the program, and recognize that one mans loss is another mans gain.

I don't see it like you do. I did some research on CAB. It is a marketing strategy. Completely legal, approved and permitted by the US Government. There are thousands of similar marketing strategies in other industries. As the YouTube above shows, there are 10 criteria for qualifying as CAB. BTW: there is a previous thread on this subject, maybe more. Many will continue to consider it "untruthful". It certainly is not fooling you and I because we have educated ourselves to what CAB is. When I buy it at the store, I know what I am getting. Compared to the other meats at Krogers in Maysville, it is the best meat.

Being pragmatic- it is a characteristic of capitalism. It is legal and in Capitalism, being ethical is not common.

You ever notice money ends up ruining a lot things?

Absolutely, it is one of the failings of Capitalism. 100 % agree.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Over 94% of the animals that qualified for CAB in the Georgia beef challenge was Angus the other 6% was SimAngus. And I might have the numbers backwards, 96% Angus and 4% SimAngus. Weight, age and ribeye area do a good job at weeding the pretenders out. The black hide is the part that gets me, Angus come in red and black.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Lack of money is a whole lot worse than the alternative.

 

[Bright Raven]

Over 94% of the animals that qualified for CAB in the Georgia beef challenge was Angus the other 6% was SimAngus. And I might have the numbers backwards, 96% Angus and 4% SimAngus. Weight, age and ribeye area do a good job at weeding the pretenders out.

The black hide is the part that gets me, Angus come in red and black.

But it don't have to be Angus. The Brand is approved based on criteria not breed.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Over 94% of the animals that qualified for CAB in the Georgia beef challenge was Angus the other 6% was SimAngus. And I might have the numbers backwards, 96% Angus and 4% SimAngus. Weight, age and ribeye area do a good job at weeding the pretenders out.

The black hide is the part that gets me, Angus come in red and black.

But it don't have to be Angus. The Brand is approved based on criteria not breed.

What read him as saying is that the carcasses presented were graded to see how many met CAB criteria and then they looked to see what their breeding was. That explains why only a sprinkling were Simmi influence.

 

[Bright Raven]

Over 94% of the animals that qualified for CAB in the Georgia beef challenge was Angus the other 6% was SimAngus. And I might have the numbers backwards, 96% Angus and 4% SimAngus. Weight, age and ribeye area do a good job at weeding the pretenders out.

But it don't have to be Angus. The Brand is approved based on criteria not breed.

What read him as saying is that the carcasses presented were graded to see how many met CAB criteria and then they looked to see what their breeding was. That explains why only a sprinkling were Simmi influence.

That is simply a reflection of the total number of Angus in the beef population. Simmental score very well on carcass quality.

 

[Ky hills]

Boyd is the "name brand" in our part of the world and commands a higher price. I'm friends with some of the folks at Solid Rock Angus they have been around for probably 6-8 yrs. They have started having production sales over the last few years and their bulls and donors appear on par with Boyd, but haven't reached the Boyd prices yet. I think they're on their up, though, as they have part ownership (with Boyd and Deer Valley) of a pretty good looking bull on select sires line up now (old hickory; https://selectsiresbeef.com/bull/angus/deer-valley-old-hickory/)
Building a name takes a LONG time. One thing that concerns me about your operation is that you've indicated that you leave all your bulls in tact. While I can understand that this may make sense from a fiscal perspective, I think that this could ultimately be damaging to you operation's reputation. No matter how good your cattle are, there are always ones that don't niche and develop well. If you sell someone a sorry looking bull, and he tells folks where he got it, everyone he tells will have you black balled in their minds.
By the way: "no" all those names mean nothing to me. My cows could care less whose prefix is in the name of the bull that mounts them, and I don't either. :lol:

Boyd does have an excellent name, and top-notch Angus, but Stone Gate has been around for a much longer time and in my opinion have some exceptional cattle. Between Charles Cannon and his brother Jere, they have 15 Pathfinders in their herd versus 1 Pathfinder at Boyd's. Great bulls are a game changer, but great FEMALES are the NAME OF THE GAME. By comparison, SAV has 19 Pathfinders, but look at SAV versus Stone Gate, SAV has far deeper resources to make that happen. Stone Gate didn't get all those Pathfinders by sheer luck.

When Boyd Angus was established, Charles Cannon and his brother had been running Stone Gate for 40 years already, and they are still in business with a sale coming up. That's a LONG TIME in the seed stock business. As for Solid Rock, they are new on the scene, they too seem to have high quality cattle, but I would like to see the owner of the operation come forward and hear his or her breeding principles and philosophy. I think when an operation is run by a manager versus an owner that there can be a disconnect in the long term vision for an operation. When you are the owner of a business it's do or die, when you are a manager of a business, you can always find another gig. I'm not saying that the manager at SRA doesn't do an excellent job, which I'm certain he does with the way things look, but for me to consider using an AI sire, I want to see that the owner was highly invested in the process, not just monetarily.

We unfortunately have steered more than we should have over the years, and probably sent some really good animals that should have been left intact to the stockyards. We steered three bull calves from the Stone Gate Kingston bull that you have seen posted here, still regret that decision, they came from very good cows, and would have developed nicely. We were changing focus out here and did not want to develop them, a mistake in hindsight.

As far as selling "sorry looking bulls", that's never going to happen here. We have never had a bull leave here that didn't score very high on their BSE, our clients look ahead and ask advice to what bulls we have in development for two years out, so they can use them on the daughters of the bulls we have already sold them. If any of our bulls have an issue, they simply will not be sold for service, nothing more to discuss, they don't enter the equation.

If you came out here, and looked at what we have to offer, I guarantee you that you could not look me in the eye with a straight face and say "that's a sorry looking bull, you should have cut him" You rushed to judgment on us, before seeing how our bulls are developed. it's not mass production with an emphasis on how cheap we can feed them. They get the best of everything, have more room than they can use, and look excellent when they load onto the trailer off to our client's farms. Nobody has brought one back, and nobody has complained. That's success in my book.

You may have a point in some cases about owners and managers and long term visions, but I think that you are not realizing the history and knowledge of Angus cattle of that family of Solid Rock Angus has. The manager happens to be an uncle of one of the owners. The manager and his family as well as his nephew have been in the cattle/Angus business quite a while. I bought my first Angus bull from the manager back in 97 or 98 and they had been in business for quite a while at that point. I also went to the Solid Rock farm and purchased a bull a few years ago. At that time I was told that they had several hundred commercial cows in addition to their sizeable registered herd. I have no idea what their breeding philosophy is but am confident that it is sound and well thought out. The manager is in my opinion one of the nicest people one could ever do business with. I was through commenting on this subject but when those folks program was questioned, I felt since knowing a little about it I should speak up on their behalf as others have for other programs.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

But it don't have to be Angus. The Brand is approved based on criteria not breed.

What read him as saying is that the carcasses presented were graded to see how many met CAB criteria and then they looked to see what their breeding was. That explains why only a sprinkling were Simmi influence.

That is simply a reflection of the total number of Angus in the beef population. Simmental score very well on carcass quality.

Maybe he'll tell us more about this Georgia Beef Challenge.