diesel safety

[danl]

I buy the maximum amount of diesel once a month at Krogers using my reward points. For the month of June is was .71 cents off per gallon, maximum of 35 gallons. Price ended up at 1.57 per gallon
I was filling up my plastic 55 gallon drum in the back of my truck, (spray in bedliner btw), and the tanker driver happened to be there. He came over and said I was doing a very dangerous thing. Said static electricity from the barrel and bed liner could cause a spark and blow me up.
I said its diesel, he said doesn't matter, and walked off and I continued to fill.

I am pretty sure the flash point of diesel is over 120 degrees, and I don't think it was that hot, maybe 84...
In my experience you almost have to talk nice to diesel to light it with a match
I would not do that with gasoline, btw.

 

[M-5]

what does it matter ??? if it did blow up you wouldn't know it. You know how many times ive filled up in the back of a truck smoking a cigarette and talking on a cell phone.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I buy the maximum amount of diesel once a month at Krogers using my reward points. For the month of June is was .71 cents off per gallon, maximum of 35 gallons. Price ended up at 1.57 per gallon
I was filling up my plastic 55 gallon drum in the back of my truck, (spray in bedliner btw), and the tanker driver happened to be there. He came over and said I was doing a very dangerous thing. Said static electricity from the barrel and bed liner could cause a spark and blow me up.
I said its diesel, he said doesn't matter, and walked off and I continued to fill.

I am pretty sure the flash point of diesel is over 120 degrees, and I don't think it was that hot, maybe 84...
In my experience you almost have to talk nice to diesel to light it with a match
I would not do that with gasoline, btw.

I made it transported it for over 30 years and the truck driver was right.
Diesel has a flash or between 125 and 205 degs depending on blend.

 

[greybeard]

It would 'seem', that diesel and kerosene type fuels would be hard to ignite because they don't vaporize at atmospheric pressure easily, but it's not always exactly true. Flowing diesel and other fuels, like JP5 can ignite from static discharge.
120deg? Thats still pretty low considering the other things you have to consider.
I guess it depends how hot the accumulated static spark is. Filling a 5 gal container doesn't allow for a lot of static
accumulation (time is a parameter) but filling a bigger tank presents a bigger danger, due to the increased amount of time the fluid is flowing.
JP5 has a flash point of around 140 degF and it certainly will ignite from static discharge. I saw a CH46 partially burn up in the refuel area of MMAF when the crewman disconnected the grounding cable before disengaging the twist lock fuel connection. Supposed to leave the ground wire connected until after the line is disconnected and stowed.

 

[ddd75]

keep thinking that.

a guy just died when his tractor blew up on him filling it up a few weeks ago around here

 

[Rafter S]

I didn't see it, but heard of a local guy filling up a 5 gallon jug with diesel in the back of a truck. He also had a car battery in there, and the way I understand some of the diesel splashed onto the battery, which caused a connection between the terminals. Burned up the truck right where it sat.

And I filled up a 5 gallon plastic jug with gasoline in the back of my truck yesterday. I figure there's not much chance of a spark with the plastic jug, but maybe that's wrong?

 

[callmefence]

My truck has a plastic diesel engine tank. My other has a metal one. I have fuel containers made from both. We all run around on tractors ,atv, and with backpacks spraying diesel under pressure through electric pumps..
The most dangerous thing you did was hop down off the bed of your truck when you finished.

The truck driver, like cb has been educated beyond common sense for liability reasons.

 

[Caustic Burno]

ULSD is much more likely to have a fire or an explosion from static electricity.

 

[danl]

My truck has a plastic diesel engine tank. My other has a metal one. I have fuel containers made from both. We all run around on tractors ,atv, and with backpacks spraying diesel under pressure through electric pumps..
The most dangerous thing you did was hop down off the bed of your truck when you finished.

The truck driver, like cb has been educated beyond common sense for liability reasons.

I have no intention of insulting CB... but that is what I was thinking about the driver.. But wanted other opinions. Not interested in blowing myself up :shock:
Both my tractors have plastic tanks, so I am failing to see the difference. Also wouldn't the spray in bedliner be less likely to create static electric than a plastic one? Also how could it possibly reach the flash point temperature??? It was at 9:00pm.

 

[danl]

I go in later to keep a low profile, I never thought there was any danger, but thought an attendant might take exception to me filling a 55 gallon drum.
Steel drum safer? Should I use a trailer with metal and wood floor?

 

[ohiosteve]

Not diesel, but I was emptying a 350gal plastic tote with a vacuum truck a few months ago. It was drip gas, the condensate that falls out of natural gas in certain conditions. I'd done this at least a hundred times. 3" rubber suction hose out of the back valve of the truck into the top of the tote. Well it was kind of vibrating, maybe sucking a little air when tank was half emptied and I heard a click,click,click WHOOF. Huge flames from top of tank, miraculously I was able to shut the valve and rip the fire extinguisher out of the truck and extinguish the flames before the plastic melted through.makes me shiver to think how badly it could have ended. Again, not diesel but gave me a new understanding of static electricity.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Your real danger was filling up while the tanker was puttin in.

 

[danl]

Your real danger was filling up while the tanker was puttin in.

You are probably right.. Pretty sure he was delivering gas.
That Kroger store sells a lot of fuel, almost hard to find a time when the tanker isn't there.
I have seen a tanker there as many as four times in one day. I work close by, I'm not stalking Kroger or anything.

 

[Caustic Burno]

My truck has a plastic diesel engine tank. My other has a metal one. I have fuel containers made from both. We all run around on tractors ,atv, and with backpacks spraying diesel under pressure through electric pumps..
The most dangerous thing you did was hop down off the bed of your truck when you finished.

The truck driver, like cb has been educated beyond common sense for liability reasons.

I have no intention of insulting CB... but that is what I was thinking about the driver.. But wanted other opinions. Not interested in blowing myself up :shock:
Both my tractors have plastic tanks, so I am failing to see the difference. Also wouldn't the spray in bedliner be less likely to create static electric than a plastic one? Also how could it possibly reach the flash point temperature??? It was at 9:00pm.

Getting into a little organic chemistry gasoline consists of C4 to C12 hydrocarbons Diesel C12 to C20 this is not a real fine cut.
The static is created by filling flash point has little to do with it.
It is a spark created in the vapor mixture over the liquid.
The flammability of a hydrocarbon vapor-air mixture depends on its vapor pressure, flash point and temperature. These properties are used to classify petroleum products whose electrical resistivities are high enough to enable them to accumulate significant electrostatic charges under certain handling conditions. Following are the three petroleum product Vapor Pressure Classifications, including common examples:

Low – Those with a closed cup flash point above 100°F (38°C).

These products do not develop flammable vapors under normal handling conditions. However, conditions for ignition may exist, if handled at temperatures above their flash points, are contaminated with higher vapor-pressure materials, or are transferred into containers where vapors are at concentrations at or above those necessary to produce a flammable mixture.

Examples: #2 Fuel Oil; Kerosene, Diesel, Jet Fuel A (commercial), Motor Oil, Asphalt, and Safety Solvents

Intermediate – Those with a closed-cup flash point below 100°F (38°C).

These products may create a flammable mixture in the vapor space at ambient temperatures.

After reading all that mumbo jumbo about Reid Vapor Pressure some of the same hydrocarbons in gasoline upper end are in diesel lower end.

 

[Craig Miller]

We use grounding wires like greybeard was talking about but we are unloading 7000 gallons at a time. I think the bigger the tank the bigger the chance but I don't know that for sure. I do know that it doesn't matter if you use steel drum or plastic. The charge is made by the flow of the fluid through the hose. Or at least that's what they tell me in my training classes that are only good for educating me beyond common sense.

 

[danl]

CB, I had to read that real slow,
but think I got the gist of it... Bottom line do you think I should stop doing it?
The poor cashiers in the little booth don't care what I do with it..
Should not be any residual higher risk vapors in it, they previously contained kidney dialysis fluid.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB, I had to read that real slow,
but think I got the gist of it... Bottom line do you think I should stop doing it?
The poor cashiers in the little booth don't care what I do with it..
Should not be any residual higher risk vapors in it, they previously contained kidney dialysis fluid.

You should place the plastic tank on the ground to fill.
Diesel has some unique flash and vapor characteristics that has quite a range
depending if the refineries are dumping kerosene in the pool blending down cetane or the 3-2-1 crack spread favors gasoline production.
I have hauled out quite of few men through the years that died from their burns.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/inclu ... xplain.php

 

[Brute 23]

I don't think its the actual diesel fluid that you have to worry about... its the vapors in the top of the jug in the void.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't think its the actual diesel fluid that you have to worry about... its the vapors in the top of the jug in the void.

Same goes for gasoline there is a crossover here between fuels that people don't get. Your heavy end gasoline and light distillate fuel are the same.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't think its the actual diesel fluid that you have to worry about... its the vapors in the top of the jug in the void.

Same goes for gasoline there is a crossover here between fuels that people don't get. Your heavy end gasoline and light distillate fuel are the same.

It's the same with all our tanks at work. That void on top the tank above the fluid is where all the bad stuff happens. It's not fluid that actually catches fire. When lightning hits the fiberglass tanks they will part right at the fluid line and the top will take off like a rocket because it's burning those vapors as it goes up in the air. We have found the tops of the tanks several hundred yards from where they were.