Dead calf

[CG1]

Maybe Ken will look in and give his opinion. It don't take long after death for certain areas to start drying out and changing appearance tho.

I am positive I saw this calf minutes after being born. It would of been no more than 5 mins after this calf hit the ground that I took that photo. The calf was still soaking wet from birth. I'm just hoping it's not something I've done wrong. I keep reading about thing like mineral deficiencies and such. My cows are fed grain, hay and grass everyday. My cows are on the fatter side.

 

[CG1]

Just as another note about the teeth in the calf. It's bottom teeth were very crooked. Almost sideways. But again not sure what's normal here.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The calf in the pictures isn't newly born. You might think it was only 5 minutes but it takes a while for the cow to lick the calf dry. There's a bunch of different ways that a calf can die or be DOA. This calve does have a weird looking mouth, but that wouldn't cause it to die or be DOA. The one bright side is, you didn't have to put a deformed calf down.

 

[CG1]

The calf in the pictures isn't newly born. You might think it was only 5 minutes but it takes a while for the cow to lick the calf dry. There's a bunch of different ways that a calf can die or be DOA. This calve does have a weird looking mouth, but that wouldn't cause it to die or be DOA. The one bright side is, you didn't have to put a deformed calf down.

Why do you say it's not newly born? I checked the field at 3pm no calf. Looked out the binoculars at 3:15 and saw the water sac hanging from my cow. The time on this pic is 3:19.

 

[CG1]

The calf in the pictures isn't newly born. You might think it was only 5 minutes but it takes a while for the cow to lick the calf dry. There's a bunch of different ways that a calf can die or be DOA. This calve does have a weird looking mouth, but that wouldn't cause it to die or be DOA. The one bright side is, you didn't have to put a deformed calf down.

The reason why I'm obsessing over the possible deformity is last year from a different cow I had a very deformed calf. It was 140lbs and almost had no head. Actually killed my cow. She died a week after we had to remove it via csection. I only have 6 cows. Two deformities in that group seem high doesn't it? Different bull for both calves. Could I have a mineral issue or anything or am I over thinking this?

 

[True Grit Farms]

The calf in the pictures isn't newly born. You might think it was only 5 minutes but it takes a while for the cow to lick the calf dry. There's a bunch of different ways that a calf can die or be DOA. This calve does have a weird looking mouth, but that wouldn't cause it to die or be DOA. The one bright side is, you didn't have to put a deformed calf down.

The reason why I'm obsessing over the possible deformity is last year from a different cow I had a very deformed calf. It was 140lbs and almost had no head. Actually killed my cow. She died a week after we had to remove it via csection. I only have 6 cows. Two deformities in that group seem high doesn't it? Different bull for both calves. Could I have a mineral issue or anything or am I over thinking this?

Not a new born is just my opinion. A calf is so slimmy right after it's born you can't hardly pick it up, and I didn't see any after birth either. From my observations it's usually it's a few hours after you see the water bag before a cow calves.
The deformed calf deal I can relate to, we had a couple ourselves. Personally I think it was because we used a MLV, we quit using a MLV and quit having any deformed caves. Whatever your doing or not doing, you need to change something.

 

[CG1]

The calf in the pictures isn't newly born. You might think it was only 5 minutes but it takes a while for the cow to lick the calf dry. There's a bunch of different ways that a calf can die or be DOA. This calve does have a weird looking mouth, but that wouldn't cause it to die or be DOA. The one bright side is, you didn't have to put a deformed calf down.

The reason why I'm obsessing over the possible deformity is last year from a different cow I had a very deformed calf. It was 140lbs and almost had no head. Actually killed my cow. She died a week after we had to remove it via csection. I only have 6 cows. Two deformities in that group seem high doesn't it? Different bull for both calves. Could I have a mineral issue or anything or am I over thinking this?

Not a new born is just my opinion. A calf is so slimmy right after it's born you can't hardly pick it up, and I didn't see any after birth either. From my observations it's usually it's a few hours after you see the water bag before a cow calves.
The deformed calf deal I can relate to, we had a couple ourselves. Personally I think it was because we used a MLV, we quit using a MLV and quit having any deformed caves. Whatever your doing or not doing, you need to change something.

Whats MLV?

You can't see the after birth bcs my cow hasn't passed it yet. Been about 24 hours. The vet is on his way now to help me. My cow is also hiding from me and I don't know what's up whether it's a depression or illness thing I dunno.

I have had a healthy calf in between this one but this one concerns me. This bull has also given neighbours and us a total of 4 healthy calves. This was the 5th from bun. I'll see what the vet says.

What do you feed your cows? I'm using round bales, general beef text grain I believe it's called and also just the grass on our 10 acres. We just rotate them around. Am I feeding them wrong? They don't get a ton of grain.

I mean I'm sure you can't tell by looks but do they look too fat? Can that cause issues with pregnancy if they are too fat?

 

[True Grit Farms]

Modified Live Vaccines. It's kind of weird that you've had a couple of deformed calves out of so few cows. But it might just be the odds haven't been in your favor. Your going to have problems and loose some if you have cattle. But mortality odds should be less one in a hundred. And having a deformed calf should be very rare, maybe one in a thousand? IDK
There's a lot of knowledgeable people on CT and a few veterinarians that might be able to help you out. I honestly have no idea what causes what.

 

[CG1]

Modified Live Vaccines. It's kind of weird that you've had a couple of deformed calves out of so few cows. But it might just be the odds haven't been in your favor. Your going to have problems and loose some if you have cattle. But mortality odds should be less one in a hundred. And having a deformed calf should be very rare, maybe one in a thousand? IDK
There's a lot of knowledgeable people on CT and a few veterinarians that might be able to help you out. I honestly have no idea what causes what.

Thanks for your input I really appreciate it. I've never vaccinated this heifer actually. I have the vet here now I'll post his thoughts on this

 

[greybeard]

You can't see the after birth bcs my cow hasn't passed it yet.

No, but there would be some tissue and fluid there by the calf. Blood, membrane, mucus, fluids that surrounded the fetus in the sac. You can't mistake where a cow has calved..it's messy, as I'm sure you already know, and immediately after, the calf's hide would be slicker and more slippery than snot.

 

[CG1]

You can't see the after birth bcs my cow hasn't passed it yet.

No, but there would be some tissue and fluid there by the calf. Blood, membrane, mucus, fluids that surrounded the fetus in the sac. You can't mistake where a cow has calved..it's messy, as I'm sure you already know, and immediately after, the calf's hide would be slicker and more slippery than snot.

Ok gotcha I just must not seen it right. The vet just came and as you all have said there is a ton of things it could be. She did have retained placenta and he gave her an infusion as it was starting to rot. All my cows were checked and are days away from calving. One is breach right now. He said she's days or a week or two away and no more. What are the chances this calf will turn in time?

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

The retained placenta and the abnormalities of the calf pictured lead me to believe you have a mineral deficiency. Do you have a mineral program in place?
On a side note, the other calf you described sounds like a genetic defect, specifically PHA. Are you 100% sure you do not have carrier cows or the sires are not carriers?

 

[CG1]

The retained placenta and the abnormalities of the calf pictured lead me to believe you have a mineral deficiency. Do you have a mineral program in place?
On a side note, the other calf you described sounds like a genetic defect, specifically PHA. Are you 100% sure you do not have carrier cows or the sires are not carriers?

I do not have a mineral program in place no. What does that mean? You give them supplements? We do give them a salt lick. I put a call out today to a nutritional specialist to see what they advise. The vet felt although it's odd it's random. As in we've had normal calves too and recently.

You are exactly right the first calf that was massive was guessed to be PHA. It was a massive ball of fluid. Very odd looking calf when it came out. The bull that sired that calf was retired and the mother died. I have no related cows anymore to the bull or dam other than a steer who is a pet. Which also had problem at birth which is why he's a pet now, but he was diagnosed with joint ill 3 days after birth and it's mother also died so we assumed the joint ill was just random but oddly the calf had no sign of navel ill, just joint ill.

In the last 5 years this is how it's gone

First calf - died of navel ill

Second calf - born healthy

Third calf - got joint ill, born to the same dam that calved the first calf, mother died shortly after giving birth, steer survived the joint ill

Fourth calf - PHA calf

Took 2 years off and got 6 bottle calves that I raised up. Got a new bull. Those 6 bottle calves I bred to a new bull.

Fifth calf - born healthy

Sixth calf - stillborn

4 more to come from those 6 bottle calves I raised up.

 

[grubbie]

"I walked over and flipped it's head up from under its shoulders. It was like it was in a somersault position."
Possibly suffocated in the way that it landed,.....didn't have the energy to right itself. Been there. Retained placenta can mean nutrition deficiencies. Put out protein tubs or blocks at least 30 days before calving, look for selenium in the mix, helps calves get up and go once born. You mentioned shots? Maybe different parts of the country have different requirements, mine get grass, water, some extra protein at calving time, nothing else. Momma takes care of the calf here, I don't iodine the navel or any of that. In cold weather (0 degrees and below), I make sure the calf gets up and sucks, then I leave them be. If they suck they will still be alive come morning. My opinion is you will have more live calves if you don't line breed, and take advantage of hybrid vigor. I hope you have better luck! Feeling bad when you lose an animal, even one, is the mark of a good cattleman (woman) in my estimation. Even when running a large herd, it hurts, and not just in the wallet. Good Luck!!!!

 

[Son of Butch]

The retained placenta and the abnormalities of the calf pictured lead me to believe you have
a mineral deficiency. Do you have a mineral program in place?

:nod:
I agree with Boot Jack.

60 days before and after calving is the most crucial time for mineral. In addition to salt, buy
a Purina Wind & Rain mineral tub (225 lbs) and a bag of cow/calf Wind & Rain mineral to refill
it when 1/2 gone. As a small operation it's the easiest way to do the least you can do.

 

[CG1]

"I walked over and flipped it's head up from under its shoulders. It was like it was in a somersault position."
Possibly suffocated in the way that it landed,.....didn't have the energy to right itself. Been there. Retained placenta can mean nutrition deficiencies. Put out protein tubs or blocks at least 30 days before calving, look for selenium in the mix, helps calves get up and go once born. You mentioned shots? Maybe different parts of the country have different requirements, mine get grass, water, some extra protein at calving time, nothing else. Momma takes care of the calf here, I don't iodine the navel or any of that. In cold weather (0 degrees and below), I make sure the calf gets up and sucks, then I leave them be. If they suck they will still be alive come morning. My opinion is you will have more live calves if you don't line breed, and take advantage of hybrid vigor. I hope you have better luck! Feeling bad when you lose an animal, even one, is the mark of a good cattleman (woman) in my estimation. Even when running a large herd, it hurts, and not just in the wallet. Good Luck!!!!

Thank you for your input really appreciate it. Non of my cows are related. Not a single one came from the same farm and all quiet a distance away from each other. Here I thought I was doing the right thing haha.

I called our feed provider and they feel we should be covered with what we are feeding them but ill definitely try something different next season. We will see how my next 4 calves come out. I will post the results. Good or bad.

 

[CG1]

The retained placenta and the abnormalities of the calf pictured lead me to believe you have
a mineral deficiency. Do you have a mineral program in place?

:nod:
I agree with Boot Jack.

60 days before and after calving is the most crucial time for mineral. In addition to salt, buy
a Purina Wind & Rain mineral tub (225 lbs) and a bag of cow/calf Wind & Rain mineral to refill
it when 1/2 gone. As a small operation it's the easiest way to do the least you can do.

Thank you. I am heading to the feed shop with your comments in hand!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Personally, I'm not very impressed with your nutritionist if they feel your cows don't need a mineral program.
Your cows should have a good balanced loose mineral (at least) 60 days before & after calving. I provide it 24/7/12
A salt block is a waste of money. The mineral should have an adequate amount of salt. And, a trace mineral salt block is a bigger waste of money. TRACE mineral is just that, there is a trace in it. If a cow consumed the whole block in one day, she MAY get her daily intake of minerals.

 

[Silver]

Speaking of which, I need to get to town and waste some more money on a ton of TM salt blocks......

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I know, Silver - but not very many of us have complete balanced minerals in our forage, like you seem to have.
And I should ad, if they are getting NOTHING, a salt block is better than nothing.