Long story short our cow went to a breeder and ended up injured in her back and/or rear legs. No one is sure what happened. She came back after 6 weeks and for the last 3 days she had to be picked up with hip lifters to be able to stand. This morning around 3:30 she got up on her own and had not laid down since! I have a camera on her in the barn and pasture and the motion detection has be consistent all day and she has been standing the entire time. Is this okay? When I talked to my vet earlier today she had only been stand about 8 hours and he said she was fine to let her stand as long as she wanted. We're going on 21 hours now!
Cow won’t lay down
- Thread starter amanicwil
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wbvs58
Well-known member
I take it when you say she went to a breeder that she had an encounter with a bull? Injuries can happen with being bred by a bull especially if she was dropped off there while in season the bull can be just a bit keen with the new girl. It is unfortunate but happens.
Phenylbutazone is not approved for use in cattle but also you shouldn't give it with corticosteroids (dexamethasone) though I doubt that a one time use would be catastrophic. Given the type of injury from a bull I would think spinal/ nerve damage most likely then the dexamethasone would be the most useful though I have had bone injuries such as pelvic damage.
Ken
Phenylbutazone is not approved for use in cattle but also you shouldn't give it with corticosteroids (dexamethasone) though I doubt that a one time use would be catastrophic. Given the type of injury from a bull I would think spinal/ nerve damage most likely then the dexamethasone would be the most useful though I have had bone injuries such as pelvic damage.
Ken
SBMF 2015
Well-known member
Well Dexamethasone causes abortions in cattle.
Like @wbvs58 said , Bute isn't for cattle. Bannimine is what you're looking for.
As far as the cow herself; the Dex probably helped her. She'll probably get better.
Probably not worth keeping her once you think she can make a trailer ride to the sale barn.
Thank you both for the replies! I shouldn't have tried to shorten the story. She's a show heifer and was going to be AI'd. She wasn't with a bull she was with a large group of heifers also there to be AI'd so I don't believe she's bred. The CIDR was placed and she went lame a few days after and she was never AI'd. It was first believed that the CIDR hit a nerve or cause an infection. Her stifle was swollen pretty good which led us to believe injury. Our vet checked her out and there's no pelvic or hip injury just the swollen stifle and of course no way to know if there is some internal nerve injury from the CIDR. Just checked on her this morning and she's still standing. Her poor feet! She has her own pasture to graze and did a good bit of the day yesterday after we let her out of the barn. Hopefully she will take a nap today.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Dexamethasone will abort late-term pregnancies; use is certainly indicated in this case. 10 day slaughter withdrawal.
IV Banamine (approved route of administration) has an effective half-life of ~9 hrs...so no long- lasting effect. 10 day slaughter withdrawal if given IV, 60+ days, if given IM.
Phenylbutazone is banned for use in any food animal, and has been, since 2003...there is no legal 'off-label' use of it in food animals. Thus, there is no established slaughter withdrawal...shipping this cow, if she doesn't recover, is probably not in the cards for 6 months or more.
IV Banamine (approved route of administration) has an effective half-life of ~9 hrs...so no long- lasting effect. 10 day slaughter withdrawal if given IV, 60+ days, if given IM.
Phenylbutazone is banned for use in any food animal, and has been, since 2003...there is no legal 'off-label' use of it in food animals. Thus, there is no established slaughter withdrawal...shipping this cow, if she doesn't recover, is probably not in the cards for 6 months or more.
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I will add that she appears to be recovering fine as far as injury. She's come a long way in the past 2 weeks. She's walking almost back to 100% and eating/drinking as normal. Also, we have absolutely no plans of shipping her. She's my daughter's show heifer that we've had since a calf and if for some reason we have to put her down she will go to the boneyard. She or I could never ship or butcher one of our pets. My husband said he could be we won't allow it! Our vet gave us all the meds and we trust him even for off label use. My main concern now is that she hasn't laid down or slept in over 24 hours!
Travlr
Well-known member
People and their pets... (facepalm)
farmerjan
Well-known member
If the vet is giving you the meds then it is on them if something should be "illegal"... Since you said she is a show heifer, then I would just leave well enough alone. Don't get too worried about the "not laying down"... she will if she gets to the point she needs to. She may be afraid of laying down since it took her so long to "get back on her feet"...
If she is eating/drinking/walking about normal then just accept it... I would make arrangements to have her AI bred there at your own place... you can do a CIDR and such there ... as it will be "timed" you will have a good idea of when she is to come in heat... Or once she gets back to normal... she can get 2 shots of Lute..... 10 days apart.. which will get her on a cycle that should get her coming in heat 1-4 days after the 2nd shot of lute.... so will know when to watch her...
I agree that she probably got hurt by another heifer riding her... maybe getting butted from the side by one when another was riding her???? It happens...
If she is eating/drinking/walking about normal then just accept it... I would make arrangements to have her AI bred there at your own place... you can do a CIDR and such there ... as it will be "timed" you will have a good idea of when she is to come in heat... Or once she gets back to normal... she can get 2 shots of Lute..... 10 days apart.. which will get her on a cycle that should get her coming in heat 1-4 days after the 2nd shot of lute.... so will know when to watch her...
I agree that she probably got hurt by another heifer riding her... maybe getting butted from the side by one when another was riding her???? It happens...
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Yes we love our pets! But, we also have a pasture full of others that are not pets and there is a difference. If this was one of them I wouldn't be here asking for advice. If it comes down to it we would do what we needed to with the show heifer. I'm not one of those people lol!
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Administering phenylbutazone(Bute) to a food-producing animal - even if it is a 'pet' - is not 'off-label' use, it is a prohibited practice. Your vet should know this, if they don't already.
Have I used Bute in cattle, in the past? Yes.
Do I do it now? No.
Would I recommend it to a client, or administer it to a client's animal? No.
There is no 'safe' or 'allowable' level for this drug in milk or meat.
Livestock 'pet' owners always say, "Oh, I'd never send her to slaughter!"... but, as you've already admitted... if something happened to you and your daughter, your husband would not hesitate to ship her.
I've seen it before... the livestock 'pet' owner passes, or is incapacitated, and spouse, kids, or executor of the estate, who have no desire to be a livestock caretaker, ship those suckers ASAP, with no consideration of 'contamination' or withdrawal times(if established).
Have I used Bute in cattle, in the past? Yes.
Do I do it now? No.
Would I recommend it to a client, or administer it to a client's animal? No.
There is no 'safe' or 'allowable' level for this drug in milk or meat.
Livestock 'pet' owners always say, "Oh, I'd never send her to slaughter!"... but, as you've already admitted... if something happened to you and your daughter, your husband would not hesitate to ship her.
I've seen it before... the livestock 'pet' owner passes, or is incapacitated, and spouse, kids, or executor of the estate, who have no desire to be a livestock caretaker, ship those suckers ASAP, with no consideration of 'contamination' or withdrawal times(if established).
kenny thomas
Well-known member
Improper use of some drugs on the past is the reason for them being restricted now.
SBMF 2015
Well-known member
And may I add; if bute worked on the show cow it will work on the commercial cow… and just like that it's in the food chain.
You trust your vet that's good. Your vet should know better.
You trust your vet that's good. Your vet should know better.
Well, never meant this post to gather so much advice on drugs, but I do appreciate the feedback. Which by the way, my bottle doesn't say phenylbutazone so it may not be Bute, which is my HUGE mistake. I'll have to look when I get home. It actually starts with a B so I assumed it was Bute! Everyone just calm down. And no, my husband wouldn't just sell an animal that had been sick. He's already said if something happened to her we couldn't sell her because she's been medicated. We are actually responsible livestock owners.
At some point yall might seriously consider if yall are keeping her alive for her benefit or yours. Even if she gets better she is likely one tweak away from injury, again.
puzzled in oregon
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kenny thomas
Well-known member
If she is walking and eating she should be fine. It takes a while sometimes.
puzzled in oregon
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Several years back one of my cows came up severely "lame". Was extremely reluctant to walk and appeared to
be in a lot of pain. Was able to get to her with the trailer and haul her and her calf to my place. She would lay
down, but when she tried to get up, she could get her back legs up fine, but when she tried to lift her front end
up her head would slam down hard enough onto the ground you could feel it hit. She would then adjust the
position of her head on the ground and use it to push herself up onto her front feet. Urinating was more of a dribble.
Vet never looked at her, but I did ask the vet about her. Assumed it was a pinched nerve. Most likely cavorting around
with other cows when she cycled, no bull was in with them. I kept her separate from the other livestock for a good month
or so. When it came time to decide about breeding her, she was by all outward appearances doing really good. So I
allowed the bull a short visit with her then separated them. Still kept her separate from the other livestock for another month.
She totally recovered, never saw any indications later that she had ever been injured. She passed her milking production on
to two heifers I kept from her.
I would give your heifer a good rest away from the other livestock and see how she does. You can always eat her later.
No need to make an immediate decision.
be in a lot of pain. Was able to get to her with the trailer and haul her and her calf to my place. She would lay
down, but when she tried to get up, she could get her back legs up fine, but when she tried to lift her front end
up her head would slam down hard enough onto the ground you could feel it hit. She would then adjust the
position of her head on the ground and use it to push herself up onto her front feet. Urinating was more of a dribble.
Vet never looked at her, but I did ask the vet about her. Assumed it was a pinched nerve. Most likely cavorting around
with other cows when she cycled, no bull was in with them. I kept her separate from the other livestock for a good month
or so. When it came time to decide about breeding her, she was by all outward appearances doing really good. So I
allowed the bull a short visit with her then separated them. Still kept her separate from the other livestock for another month.
She totally recovered, never saw any indications later that she had ever been injured. She passed her milking production on
to two heifers I kept from her.
I would give your heifer a good rest away from the other livestock and see how she does. You can always eat her later.
No need to make an immediate decision.
SBMF 2015
Well-known member
There is a great group of folks here on CT with a vast amount of knowledge. Some of us got it from books and some of us from the school of hard knocks. Either way we all take pride in what we do and can sometimes come across pretty strong when we know something is being done in a way that is not necessarily the best.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
When discussion threads like these pop up, I occasionally take advantage of them to discuss what is allowed, what is approved, what is 'extra-label', and what is prohibited. I see recommendations on here, all the time, of 'give this', or 'give that'... and in some cases, those are good recommendations... other times, they are bogus BS from people who don't know the drugs and their modes of action, the condition at hand, or whether the thin they're recommending will really even work.
Kenny hit the nail on the head... misuse of some drugs in the past have led to them being prohibited. In some cases, it's just been a case of increasing knowledge base that has lead regulatory authorities to ban them.
Banamine (flunixin meglumine) - which may be the 'B' drug the OP's vet prescribed - is approved for use in cattle as an intravenous injection.
How many folks on this board, some of whom seem to use it like it was water, give it IV? It can be given intramuscularly, but that is an 'extra-label' usage, and projected meat withdrawal time changes from 10 days for IV administration to 60+ days for an IM injection. Multiple doses? Go past 60; Do not collect $200.
Banamine tissue residues are one of, if not THE top offender for drug residues in meat... mainly due to its widespread use in dairy cattle, with cull dairy cows going to slaughter every day... there are some 'frequent flyers' who are not allowed to sell cattle, because they've had so many violative residue incidents.
Yeah, lots of people give it IV because they can't or don't want to hit a vein. It's not innocuous... it does cause some muscle damage at the site of injection.
Bute(phenylbutazone) pretty much HAS to go IV (unless you're giving oral product); if you give it IM, you'll have a nasty necrotic mess on your hands.
Kenny hit the nail on the head... misuse of some drugs in the past have led to them being prohibited. In some cases, it's just been a case of increasing knowledge base that has lead regulatory authorities to ban them.
Banamine (flunixin meglumine) - which may be the 'B' drug the OP's vet prescribed - is approved for use in cattle as an intravenous injection.
How many folks on this board, some of whom seem to use it like it was water, give it IV? It can be given intramuscularly, but that is an 'extra-label' usage, and projected meat withdrawal time changes from 10 days for IV administration to 60+ days for an IM injection. Multiple doses? Go past 60; Do not collect $200.
Banamine tissue residues are one of, if not THE top offender for drug residues in meat... mainly due to its widespread use in dairy cattle, with cull dairy cows going to slaughter every day... there are some 'frequent flyers' who are not allowed to sell cattle, because they've had so many violative residue incidents.
Yeah, lots of people give it IV because they can't or don't want to hit a vein. It's not innocuous... it does cause some muscle damage at the site of injection.
Bute(phenylbutazone) pretty much HAS to go IV (unless you're giving oral product); if you give it IM, you'll have a nasty necrotic mess on your hands.
