Commercial home kept bulls

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I have had 8 bulls born since 1-1 out of 17 calves so far. All are banded except for 2. More breeders need to be pickier about what they leave in-tact and left as bulls. Just because it has papers does not mean he is bull quality.
I sell my bull calves still on the cow. If they are weaned and not sold prior to shipping my steers, they get cut & shipped with the steers. I am back to 100% AI - 2 seasons, basically 60 days Jan-Feb & fall 60 days Sept-Oct.
This thread is about commercial bulls, but I added my 2 cents on PB bulls. A good bull makes a GREAT steer. I think if people are serious about improving a cow herd, they should use a registered bull (not necessarily a PB bull), but papered known pedigree that you can get EPD's to analyze along with phenotype to see what he can do to improve on your cowherd.
For someone that is looking at terminal bulls to sell ALL their calf crop and are not worried about CE, then a commercial meat wagon can fit the bill. IMHO

 

[Lazy M]

I have had 8 bulls born since 1-1 out of 17 calves so far. All are banded except for 2. More breeders need to be pickier about what they leave in-tact and left as bulls. Just because it has papers does not mean he is bull quality.
I sell my bull calves still on the cow. If they are weaned and not sold prior to shipping my steers, they get cut & shipped with the steers. I am back to 100% AI - 2 seasons, basically 60 days Jan-Feb & fall 60 days Sept-Oct.
This thread is about commercial bulls, but I added my 2 cents on PB bulls. A good bull makes a GREAT steer. I think if people are serious about improving a cow herd, they should use a registered bull (not necessarily a PB bull), but papered known pedigree that you can get EPD's to analyze along with phenotype to see what he can do to improve on your cowherd.
For someone that is looking at terminal bulls to sell ALL their calf crop and are not worried about CE, then a commercial meat wagon can fit the bill. IMHO

I agree with this statement. The intent of any of my home raised bulls would be for terminal calves. It would have to be a pretty awesome heifer before I'd consider keeping one that was sired by my home raised boys. I also don't plan to market any of my bulls for breeding stock because I'm not comfortable selling one without epds to give an idea of what to expect from them. One of my nephews has seen one of the bulls pictured and asked to buy him to replace one of his bulls. I encouraged him to wait until I have a crop of calves from him first so we can have an idea of their birth weights and pre/post weaning performance.

 

[Ebenezer]

Keeping a home raised bull makes absolutely no sense to me, unless you sell bulls. There's a lot of cost involved with a bull if your going to do it right. Growing and conditioning is expensive then you need to add a BSE, and if your going to put him on heifers a DNA test can help you determine if there might be a BW issue. Personally I like to see 8 or 10 young bulls in pens together and pick out which ones look the best to me, then look at his EPD'S and go with it.

Depending on your ability to read/know the animals and your long term goals you will never buy a bull (99% of the time) that will function as well as a home raised bull if you want him to sire replacement daughters. The exception is a proven bull.
Using a son of an AI terminal bull from somebody else who bought the semen from a picture and some numbers is a big gamble. Those 10 in the pen: there are others that are not available (top end) and some that were culled. Your calves will not look like the 10 in the pen but the entire range of looks that you only see a fraction.

Terminal does not look or act like maternal. Terminal is easy to find. Nobody ever sells their best unless you can get in on an aged bull that has replicated himself sufficiently.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I have had 8 bulls born since 1-1 out of 17 calves so far. All are banded except for 2. More breeders need to be pickier about what they leave in-tact and left as bulls. Just because it has papers does not mean he is bull quality.
I sell my bull calves still on the cow. If they are weaned and not sold prior to shipping my steers, they get cut & shipped with the steers. I am back to 100% AI - 2 seasons, basically 60 days Jan-Feb & fall 60 days Sept-Oct.
This thread is about commercial bulls, but I added my 2 cents on PB bulls. A good bull makes a GREAT steer. I think if people are serious about improving a cow herd, they should use a registered bull (not necessarily a PB bull), but papered known pedigree that you can get EPD's to analyze along with phenotype to see what he can do to improve on your cowherd.
For someone that is looking at terminal bulls to sell ALL their calf crop and are not worried about CE, then a commercial meat wagon can fit the bill. IMHO

I agree with this statement. The intent of any of my home raised bulls would be for terminal calves. It would have to be a pretty awesome heifer before I'd consider keeping one that was sired by my home raised boys. I also don't plan to market any of my bulls for breeding stock because I'm not comfortable selling one without epds to give an idea of what to expect from them. One of my nephews has seen one of the bulls pictured and asked to buy him to replace one of his bulls. I encouraged him to wait until I have a crop of calves from him first so we can have an idea of their birth weights and pre/post weaning performance.

Both of those are great post. When you home raise a bull for your herd how many do you choose from? The reason I ask is at one time I was selling a few bulls myself, and some started off nice and didn't grow out to what I expected. Then you have a real problem. If you cull him you lose money, and if you use him your goals of improving with every calf crop isn't realistic. Every bull I raised would run a cow at 6 months old or less and pester the heck out of the herd bull. Sometimes a cow would have all the bulls pestering her at the same time. The risk vs reward in retaining a bull isn't worth it to me, bulls are still selling cheap and being able to pick and choose what you think you need is priceless. IMO

 

[True Grit Farms]

Keeping a home raised bull makes absolutely no sense to me, unless you sell bulls. There's a lot of cost involved with a bull if your going to do it right. Growing and conditioning is expensive then you need to add a BSE, and if your going to put him on heifers a DNA test can help you determine if there might be a BW issue. Personally I like to see 8 or 10 young bulls in pens together and pick out which ones look the best to me, then look at his EPD'S and go with it.

Depending on your ability to read/know the animals and your long term goals you will never buy a bull (99% of the time) that will function as well as a home raised bull if you want him to sire replacement daughters. The exception is a proven bull.
Using a son of an AI terminal bull from somebody else who bought the semen from a picture and some numbers is a big gamble. Those 10 in the pen: there are others that are not available (top end) and some that were culled. Your calves will not look like the 10 in the pen but the entire range of looks that you only see a fraction.

Terminal does not look or act like maternal. Terminal is easy to find. Nobody ever sells their best unless you can get in on an aged bull that has replicated himself sufficiently.

Your probably right under proper management practices. I don't think everyone one this thread has proper management practices myself.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Keeping a home raised bull makes absolutely no sense to me, unless you sell bulls. There's a lot of cost involved with a bull if your going to do it right. Growing and conditioning is expensive then you need to add a BSE, and if your going to put him on heifers a DNA test can help you determine if there might be a BW issue. Personally I like to see 8 or 10 young bulls in pens together and pick out which ones look the best to me, then look at his EPD'S and go with it.

Depending on your ability to read/know the animals and your long term goals you will never buy a bull (99% of the time) that will function as well as a home raised bull if you want him to sire replacement daughters. The exception is a proven bull.
Using a son of an AI terminal bull from somebody else who bought the semen from a picture and some numbers is a big gamble. Those 10 in the pen: there are others that are not available (top end) and some that were culled. Your calves will not look like the 10 in the pen but the entire range of looks that you only see a fraction.

Terminal does not look or act like maternal. Terminal is easy to find. Nobody ever sells their best unless you can get in on an aged bull that has replicated himself sufficiently.

Well, I really don't agree with most of this statement. If someone is looking for a bull, they need to buy from a reputable breeder that has certain goals/criteria in their program. I breed to "pictured" AI bulls all the time - but, I have done my research checking with others that have the opportunity to travel & SEE offspring and see as many as possible myself.
My calf crop (and I use mine as an example, but many PB breeders) are sired by maybe 10 different bulls, but the calves are like peas in a pod - except for color. When you are dealing with a "breeder", you should be dealing with a farm that you can walk around & see in the cowherd what you want in your cowherd.
If you are dealing with a reputable breeder - they sell ONLY THEIR BEST. Some bulls may lean more towards terminal, but on the whole, they are like picking thru brothers - no matter who the sire is.
If you are a BREEDER, you should have a "picture" in your mind of what your goals are. You never get PERFECT calves, so each replacement may have something you would like a little different, so you pick a bull to make the offspring of that dam as close to what you consider "perfect".

 

[Lazy M]

I have had 8 bulls born since 1-1 out of 17 calves so far. All are banded except for 2. More breeders need to be pickier about what they leave in-tact and left as bulls. Just because it has papers does not mean he is bull quality.
I sell my bull calves still on the cow. If they are weaned and not sold prior to shipping my steers, they get cut & shipped with the steers. I am back to 100% AI - 2 seasons, basically 60 days Jan-Feb & fall 60 days Sept-Oct.
This thread is about commercial bulls, but I added my 2 cents on PB bulls. A good bull makes a GREAT steer. I think if people are serious about improving a cow herd, they should use a registered bull (not necessarily a PB bull), but papered known pedigree that you can get EPD's to analyze along with phenotype to see what he can do to improve on your cowherd.
For someone that is looking at terminal bulls to sell ALL their calf crop and are not worried about CE, then a commercial meat wagon can fit the bill. IMHO

I agree with this statement. The intent of any of my home raised bulls would be for terminal calves. It would have to be a pretty awesome heifer before I'd consider keeping one that was sired by my home raised boys. I also don't plan to market any of my bulls for breeding stock because I'm not comfortable selling one without epds to give an idea of what to expect from them. One of my nephews has seen one of the bulls pictured and asked to buy him to replace one of his bulls. I encouraged him to wait until I have a crop of calves from him first so we can have an idea of their birth weights and pre/post weaning performance.

Both of those are great post. When you home raise a bull for your herd how many do you choose from? The reason I ask is at one time I was selling a few bulls myself, and some started off nice and didn't grow out to what I expected. Then you have a real problem. If you cull him you lose money, and if you use him your goals of improving with every calf crop isn't realistic. Every bull I raised would run a cow at 6 months old or less and pester the heck out of the herd bull. Sometimes a cow would have all the bulls pestering her at the same time. The risk vs reward in retaining a bull isn't worth it to me, bulls are still selling cheap and being able to pick and choose what you think you need is priceless. IMO

Honestly I've rarely left a big bull sale feeling good. The ones I like are too expensive; the ones I can afford I don't really like. I've only been trying out AI for the last 4 or 5 years (thanks to this site for getting me interested) and I pick out my best 40-50 cows and whatever heifers that I've retained and give them 1 timed ai cycle. From this group is where retain my replacements (heifers and bulls).
The crop that the two I pictured earlier were picked from a group of 12 or so bulls that were ai sired (all from the same stud bull). I like them pretty well and their mothers have been very productive cows for us.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I agree with this statement. The intent of any of my home raised bulls would be for terminal calves. It would have to be a pretty awesome heifer before I'd consider keeping one that was sired by my home raised boys. I also don't plan to market any of my bulls for breeding stock because I'm not comfortable selling one without epds to give an idea of what to expect from them. One of my nephews has seen one of the bulls pictured and asked to buy him to replace one of his bulls. I encouraged him to wait until I have a crop of calves from him first so we can have an idea of their birth weights and pre/post weaning performance.

Both of those are great post. When you home raise a bull for your herd how many do you choose from? The reason I ask is at one time I was selling a few bulls myself, and some started off nice and didn't grow out to what I expected. Then you have a real problem. If you cull him you lose money, and if you use him your goals of improving with every calf crop isn't realistic. Every bull I raised would run a cow at 6 months old or less and pester the heck out of the herd bull. Sometimes a cow would have all the bulls pestering her at the same time. The risk vs reward in retaining a bull isn't worth it to me, bulls are still selling cheap and being able to pick and choose what you think you need is priceless. IMO

Honestly I've rarely left a big bull sale feeling good. The ones I like are too expensive; the ones I can afford I don't really like. I've only been trying out AI for the last 4 or 5 years (thanks to this site for getting me interested) and I pick out my best 40-50 cows and whatever heifers that I've retained and give them 1 timed ai cycle. From this group is where retain my replacements (heifers and bulls).
The crop that the two I pictured earlier were picked from a group of 12 or so bulls that were ai sired (all from the same stuff bull). I like them pretty well and their mothers have been very productive cows for us.

I need to try this myself, I'm not sure that I could put a home raised bull on a heifer till after I saw a calf crop though. I have a couple of questions, first one is do you use your home raised bulls as clean up bulls for the AI herd? And it sounds like you feel the AI bulls you choose produce a better calf than the home raised bulls, is that the way I'm reading your post?

 

[Lazy M]

Both of those are great post. When you home raise a bull for your herd how many do you choose from? The reason I ask is at one time I was selling a few bulls myself, and some started off nice and didn't grow out to what I expected. Then you have a real problem. If you cull him you lose money, and if you use him your goals of improving with every calf crop isn't realistic. Every bull I raised would run a cow at 6 months old or less and pester the heck out of the herd bull. Sometimes a cow would have all the bulls pestering her at the same time. The risk vs reward in retaining a bull isn't worth it to me, bulls are still selling cheap and being able to pick and choose what you think you need is priceless. IMO

Honestly I've rarely left a big bull sale feeling good. The ones I like are too expensive; the ones I can afford I don't really like. I've only been trying out AI for the last 4 or 5 years (thanks to this site for getting me interested) and I pick out my best 40-50 cows and whatever heifers that I've retained and give them 1 timed ai cycle. From this group is where retain my replacements (heifers and bulls).
The crop that the two I pictured earlier were picked from a group of 12 or so bulls that were ai sired (all from the same stuff bull). I like them pretty well and their mothers have been very productive cows for us.

I need to try this myself, I'm not sure that I could put a home raised bull on a heifer till after I saw a calf crop though. I have a couple of questions, first one is do you use your home raised bulls as clean up bulls for the AI herd? And it sounds like you feel the AI bulls you choose produce a better calf than the home raised bulls, is that the way I'm reading your post?

The cows that I AI get released with the rest of the herd and the terminal bulls (including the home raised bulls and others that I've purchased). I wait around 10-14 days after the AI to turn them out so I'll have a good idea if they took the AI or not when they calve.
The heifers get pastured in a separate lot with a purchased calving ease bull. I usually AI to angus and have been using a Hereford bull on the heifers to help id if they took the AI.
Overall I'd say that the AI calves are noticeably better than my herd bulls calves. They are not always the biggest, but are definitely more sound and correct. Especially the heifers.

 

[Ebenezer]

My calf crop (and I use mine as an example, but many PB breeders) are sired by maybe 10 different bulls, but the calves are like peas in a pod - except for color. When you are dealing with a "breeder", you should be dealing with a farm that you can walk around & see in the cowherd what you want in your cowherd.
If you are dealing with a reputable breeder - they sell ONLY THEIR BEST. Some bulls may lean more towards terminal, but on the whole, they are like picking thru brothers - no matter who the sire is.

Utopia. If they are all alike why not just use one bull? I have not seen that evenness.
Reputable breeder: define? AI stud with the latest and greatest off of test or from their buddy source? Walking through the cow herd of each bull in an AI catalog or in every state from here to there. Not very feasible. "PB Breeders" of Angus are the ones that have caused the adjoining thread about bad feet that are a major problem for many who breed mainline and trust the established sources. And the Angus breed needs a topline scoring system, an udder and teat scoring system, a mothering and calf vigor scoring system, apparently hid some defects for a while, have a new defect in the pot, ... If you deal with any species very long it becomes clear that some or many of the top end or movers and shakers are there for themselves and not for the benefit of the potential buyers or their species and breed.

 

[Big Cheese]

I'll say here before I start typing that I prefer buying my bulls as registered virgin bulls from a seller and have all of that but I have this question.....

If you have a cow that is a really really good cow....that raises amazing calves every year that sells at the top of the market no matter the time of year. You consider her the best cow that you have ever had. Why not keep a bull out of her? You would be getting those genetics into your herd for every calf you have and be getting more replacements out of her bloodline then by hoping to keep one heifer from here every year if she doesn't have a bull?

I know that with this EPDs and stuff that that has improved calving and calving ease out of all breeds of bulls but I feel like it has all gotten watered down to an extent. 30+ years ago all of this stuff wasn't around. When farmers needed bulls they would just raise their own and boom they would have a good young bull for however long they wanted to keep them. There wasn't all of this focus on EPD this EPD that. People would have their good cows and they would leave bull calves as bulls and raise them for future prospects if they needed them or they would sell them. My grandpa kept many a calf as bulls and they produced really good calves for him (even though my dad did say the calves got better when they bought a good bull lol). I think these bulls we all buy nowadays are way better bulls then those don't get me wrong but I think there is to much hype on all the EPD stuff that comes with bulls that you buy. If the bull looks good, is sound, and is what your looking for in your herd, get him and use him. The EPD stuff is a plus in my opinion not a necessity for picking a bull.

I wanted to throw this topic out there to start a good discussion. I think it would be a good topic to discuss.

 

[BFE]

I'll say here before I start typing that I prefer buying my bulls as registered virgin bulls from a seller and have all of that but I have this question.....

If you have a cow that is a really really good cow....that raises amazing calves every year that sells at the top of the market no matter the time of year. You consider her the best cow that you have ever had. Why not keep a bull out of her? You would be getting those genetics into your herd for every calf you have and be getting more replacements out of her bloodline then by hoping to keep one heifer from here every year if she doesn't have a bull?

I know that with this EPDs and stuff that that has improved calving and calving ease out of all breeds of bulls but I feel like it has all gotten watered down to an extent. 30+ years ago all of this stuff wasn't around. When farmers needed bulls they would just raise their own and boom they would have a good young bull for however long they wanted to keep them. There wasn't all of this focus on EPD this EPD that. People would have their good cows and they would leave bull calves as bulls and raise them for future prospects if they needed them or they would sell them. My grandpa kept many a calf as bulls and they produced really good calves for him (even though my dad did say the calves got better when they bought a good bull lol). I think these bulls we all buy nowadays are way better bulls then those don't get me wrong but I think there is to much hype on all the EPD stuff that comes with bulls that you buy. If the bull looks good, is sound, and is what your looking for in your herd, get him and use him. The EPD stuff is a plus in my opinion not a necessity for picking a bull.

I wanted to throw this topic out there to start a good discussion. I think it would be a good topic to discuss.

I agree on keeping a bull out of a top performing cow. We are about 1/2 AI with bull cleanup and 1/2 straight bull service at this time, with the goal to AI everything one round then go to live cover to cleanup. Instead of spending big dollars on a cleanup, why not save the best few back, number depending on need of course. Spend those dollars on cows or heifers, facilities, etc. It will also give a good comparison on how good the performance is on the AI sire, assuming he's also not the sire of your cleanup. Even if he was cleanup's sire, it could still be a decent indicator of his performance, ability to pass on desired traits, etc.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

When folks are speaking of proven, it doesn't necessarily put all the load on that paticular Bulls shoulders..its mean he comes from a proven family..near majority of Bulls bought at 15 mo. To 2yrs... And have no calves on the ground...

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Well, I really don't agree with most of this statement. If someone is looking for a bull, they need to buy from a reputable breeder that has certain goals/criteria in their program. I breed to "pictured" AI bulls all the time - but, I have done my research checking with others that have the opportunity to travel & SEE offspring and see as many as possible myself.
My calf crop (and I use mine as an example, but many PB breeders) are sired by maybe 10 different bulls, but the calves are like peas in a pod - except for color. When you are dealing with a "breeder", you should be dealing with a farm that you can walk around & see in the cowherd what you want in your cowherd.
If you are dealing with a reputable breeder - they sell ONLY THEIR BEST. Some bulls may lean more towards terminal, but on the whole, they are like picking thru brothers - no matter who the sire is.
If you are a BREEDER, you should have a "picture" in your mind of what your goals are. You never get PERFECT calves, so each replacement may have something you would like a little different, so you pick a bull to make the offspring of that dam as close to what you consider "perfect".

I can see your reasoning behind the mix and matching Bulls, sorta like bending metal, you bend it in the direction you want it to go..sometime it's just takes a little tweaking here and there, to get the results you want...

 

[cowgirl8]

I've sold commercial bull calves as bulls to few people who wanted to use them on their cows. Registered bulls doesn't always produce best calves or best replacements.

If there were a icon for 'faints' I'd apply it here....

 

[cowgirl8]

We stopped off at a vet's office the other day for the convenience of it..Not our regular vet, but he knows us and was happy to sell us meds. Anywho, husband went in and was in there an hour. When he came out he said the vet wanted to pick his brain on cattle. A few of the things he said he's learned were, if you have a good home grown bull and a lot of cows, he's started keeping them for his herds. He also asked how we market our calves. He said someone talked him into shipping his to OKC. He said, after weaning, feeding, and paying for shipping, he couldn't tell he made any more than if he sold them locally... He also told husband that he's sees a lot of producers selling the best heifers and keeping the worst because they get more for the better heifers. Who does that???

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

My calf crop (and I use mine as an example, but many PB breeders) are sired by maybe 10 different bulls, but the calves are like peas in a pod - except for color. When you are dealing with a "breeder", you should be dealing with a farm that you can walk around & see in the cowherd what you want in your cowherd.
If you are dealing with a reputable breeder - they sell ONLY THEIR BEST. Some bulls may lean more towards terminal, but on the whole, they are like picking thru brothers - no matter who the sire is.

Utopia. If they are all alike why not just use one bull? I have not seen that evenness.
Reputable breeder: define? AI stud with the latest and greatest off of test or from their buddy source? Walking through the cow herd of each bull in an AI catalog or in every state from here to there. Not very feasible. "PB Breeders" of Angus are the ones that have caused the adjoining thread about bad feet that are a major problem for many who breed mainline and trust the established sources. And the Angus breed needs a topline scoring system, an udder and teat scoring system, a mothering and calf vigor scoring system, apparently hid some defects for a while, have a new defect in the pot, ... If you deal with any species very long it becomes clear that some or many of the top end or movers and shakers are there for themselves and not for the benefit of the potential buyers or their species and breed.

You are kinda like your name. Doesn't sound like you trust very many people. That's too bad for you.
I breed to many different bulls, because no 1 bull has all the traits to FIX all my cows. I have a heck of a good group of cows, but NONE are PERFECT. I am not barn blind. I am always striving to improve. Sorry you don't have breeders around that you can rely on. I've only been doing this for 47 years. I can say I have NEVER had a bull buyer unhappy. Most my bulls (the few I do sell as bulls) go to repeat buyers. I only sell weaned bull calves. Rarely have a bull of breeding age.

When you sell unproven bulls, you are selling their pedigree. I hardly sell a bull that the buyer doesn't want to see the dam. And, they can usually see siblings in my herd.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

EPD's are a TOOL. You first have to SEE the bull, and make sure he has all the right parts & pieces that you think your cowherd needs. Then you look at the EPD's to see if they align with what you are trying to achieve. EPD's on virgin bulls are pretty much telling you what is pedigree is going to do for you. He may be a "curve bender" and not perform exactly like his EPD's tell you. Well, none, or mostly none perform EXACTLY as their EPD's tell you.

 

[elkwc]

I agree with this statement. The intent of any of my home raised bulls would be for terminal calves. It would have to be a pretty awesome heifer before I'd consider keeping one that was sired by my home raised boys. I also don't plan to market any of my bulls for breeding stock because I'm not comfortable selling one without epds to give an idea of what to expect from them. One of my nephews has seen one of the bulls pictured and asked to buy him to replace one of his bulls. I encouraged him to wait until I have a crop of calves from him first so we can have an idea of their birth weights and pre/post weaning performance.

Both of those are great post. When you home raise a bull for your herd how many do you choose from? The reason I ask is at one time I was selling a few bulls myself, and some started off nice and didn't grow out to what I expected. Then you have a real problem. If you cull him you lose money, and if you use him your goals of improving with every calf crop isn't realistic. Every bull I raised would run a cow at 6 months old or less and pester the heck out of the herd bull. Sometimes a cow would have all the bulls pestering her at the same time. The risk vs reward in retaining a bull isn't worth it to me, bulls are still selling cheap and being able to pick and choose what you think you need is priceless. IMO

Honestly I've rarely left a big bull sale feeling good. The ones I like are too expensive; the ones I can afford I don't really like. I've only been trying out AI for the last 4 or 5 years (thanks to this site for getting me interested) and I pick out my best 40-50 cows and whatever heifers that I've retained and give them 1 timed ai cycle. From this group is where retain my replacements (heifers and bulls).
The crop that the two I pictured earlier were picked from a group of 12 or so bulls that were ai sired (all from the same stud bull). I like them pretty well and their mothers have been very productive cows for us.

I agree with what you said about bull sales. I don't a piece of paper to tell me if a bull has enough performance. I sell by actual weights and that is what I want to see on a bull I'm considering. Just this week I was looking at a catalog and picked out a few Bulls I wanted more info on. One had an adj YW weight of 1490 and a big YW EPD. He born in late spring of 016. When I asked about his current weight I learned his actual weight on 12/1/17 was 1,500. So almost 7 months after his y/o birthday he weighed ten pounds more than his adj YW. I then learned a calf 4 months younger than him was 50 pounds heavier in actual weight last week . This is why I don't put any faith in EPD's.

 

[Big Cheese]

We stopped off at a vet's office the other day for the convenience of it..Not our regular vet, but he knows us and was happy to sell us meds. Anywho, husband went in and was in there an hour. When he came out he said the vet wanted to pick his brain on cattle. A few of the things he said he's learned were, if you have a good home grown bull and a lot of cows, he's started keeping them for his herds. He also asked how we market our calves. He said someone talked him into shipping his to OKC. He said, after weaning, feeding, and paying for shipping, he couldn't tell he made any more than if he sold them locally... He also told husband that he's sees a lot of producers selling the best heifers and keeping the worst because they get more for the better heifers. Who does that???

I know some people that do that. Selling the best heifers brings in more money then selling the heifers that aren't as big. Also, some farmers are keeping the smaller heifers so that they will raise smaller cows and thus be able to run more cattle. More cattle means more calves which means more money. If you just put the time into the heifer then it will grow just takes a little bit longer. There is a farmer here that has over 500 momma cows and that is what he does. Has been doing it for over 30 years. So there must be some good by doing that.