Black buzzards struck again.

[farmerjan]

The powers that be seem to be blind to anything except their desire to stop people from killing vultures... which seems to be a very common urban motivation, wanting everything to live out their lives. But I'm sure the vultures are preying on wildlife too, aren't they?

I've never dealt with vultures, so I need an education. But it sure seems to me that some kind of community action has become necessary. Maybe hiring vulture killers as a group, making everyone equally culpable, would get the point across to the politicians while spreading out the liability? If the local sheriff had twenty livestock producers show up at the same time to turn themselves in for killing vultures to protect their livestock, with the media informed of what was happening, would anyone get thrown in jail or fined? How many calves equal the value in the risk of being fined?

I wish I lived where you guys are having problems. I'm old and retired and can afford a few nights in jail. You could all hire me at a dollar apiece and I'd set up traps on each place and train the vultures that killing calves have consequences. Surely the birds roost and nest in close proximity to each other. I'd be visiting their homes too.

All the idiots would see us farmers as destroyers of the environment and put us in jail for raising meat to eat... they'd be glad of a reason of us killing the vultures as a threat to the federal government laws of not killing any predatory birds and make sure we spent the next 10 years in jail...screw that we were protecting our livestock... we shouldn't have cattle as they are causing too much CO 2..... serves us right.... DON'T get me started on those STUPID IDIOTS....

 

[farmerjan]

We have all complained enough that they are issuing permits because they are also becoming nuisances in city landfills, and places like cemeteries and such. Plus the game depts in several states are saying they are almost as bad as the hog population because they do more damage to LIVESTOCK... not just the land....

 

[Walker's Ridge]

Yes there are permits that can be gotten. If your guy is so "by the book"... ask him about the permit system .... or look it up on your state game commission website or something like that. Almost every state now is granting permits where they have become a big nuisance...
And yep, they seem to get caught in baling twine and hang themselves on fences when it gets caught near the post they were roosting on....
And I am not that great of a shot and when I shoot at a possum or coon that is harassing my chickens I know there aren't any people up in the trees but can't see everything else that is up there.....

Since part of this seems directed at me...

My conversation with the Game Officer was years ago. Long before a Permit was available, which is a very recent thing.

 

[50/50Farms]

All the idiots would see us farmers as destroyers of the environment and put us in jail for raising meat to eat... they'd be glad of a reason of us killing the vultures as a threat to the federal government laws of not killing any predatory birds and make sure we spent the next 10 years in jail...screw that we were protecting our livestock... we shouldn't have cattle as they are causing too much CO 2..... serves us right.... DON'T get me started on those STUPID IDIOTS....

We have all complained enough that they are issuing permits because they are also becoming nuisances in city landfills, and places like cemeteries and such. Plus the game depts in several states are saying they are almost as bad as the hog population because they do more damage to LIVESTOCK... not just the land....

Jan, I'll bet you carry a fine color when you're all strutted up for war like that. I don't know why but I always enjoy seeing you cut loose with your unvarnished statements, even when they've been pointed at me a time or two. I'll bet you were a spitfire to deal with in years prior, not that you're slowing down too much.

 

[kenny thomas]

Would that work for bears

Yes but draws buzzards.

 

[Ky hills]

Well no ones pays any attention to people that stay silent, that's for sure.

Remember when Monsanto was suing people for having their patented genetics in their crop? The issue created by wind-blown pollen from fields planted with Round-up Ready GMO corn? And several farmers banded together to fund the legal defense of a single farmer that was being sued? I haven't hear of any law suits lately from Monsanto.

From everything here on these fora the vulture issues are only going to get worse. How many animals have to die to get livestock producers to make some noise? Is it only going to happen after the problems double or triple?

I agree with you that no one pays any attention to anybody that stays silent. The reality is there's not many that willing to stick their necks out for anybody else and the same is true in the agriculture community.
I'm not familiar with that Monsanto lawsuit, but I would imagine that the other farmers had a pretty good reason to back the other farmer as they were probably in the same boat and thought they might could prevent the company from going after them.
It does look like that farmers and ranchers could come together on the buzzard issue too, but problem is farmers aren't likely to be heard.
I'm going to mosey over to the politics section of the forum and make a post to continue this part of the discussion as I think you've brought up a valid point.

 

[Travlr]

I'm going to mosey over to the politics section of the forum and make a post to continue this part of the discussion as I think you've brought up a valid point.

Placing this in a politics forum makes it into a political issue.

I don't see vultures killing livestock as political. IMO, making it political limits our conversation. If there are strategies to deal with the issues most of them would involve some kind of physical confrontation or barriers. Even an inability to confront the issue is just a matter of being limited in what can be done legally.

This is one of the problems we have in our country... seeing everything from a political bent instead of keeping legalities and politics separated.

Maybe that's because most politicians are lawyers... but it doesn't have to be seen that way.

 

[Ky hills]

Placing this in a politics forum makes it into a political issue.

I don't see vultures killing livestock as political. IMO, making it political limits our conversation. If there are strategies to deal with the issues most of them would involve some kind of physical confrontation or barriers. Even an inability to confront the issue is just a matter of being limited in what can be done legally.

This is one of the problems we have in our country... seeing everything from a political bent instead of keeping legalities and politics separated.

Maybe that's because most politicians are lawyers... but it doesn't have to be seen that way.

I don't see buzzards as a political issue either, but the status of them is controlled by the government.
I won't move the discussion, was just thinking it might give a little more leeway to discuss different angles.
Its finally being acknowledged by the wildlife depts. and agriculture depts. of colleges that the buzzards are predatory.
Now if they would just start allowing for meaningful reduction of the birds like coyotes. Obviously it hasn't decreased the population of coyotes much, but would give farmers and ranchers a chance to alleviate the burden temporarily.

 

[chaded]

In town they deal with them real bad. Especially the Mexican and Chinese restaurant. They just roost in nearby trees and hang around their dumpsters. I haven't seen any at my place yet but I already know what will happen when I see one and it never entered into my mind to care what any agency thinks about it.

 

[wbvs58]

Unfortunately, I don't think anybody listens to farmers and ranchers anymore.
There are several large roosts around but none that you could do anything about.
Huge roost in the city cemetery, you'd think that would be embarrassing and they would run them out but no. Another big roost from what I'm told on a utility substation property. I've seen large numbers of them flying around just before dark around the national forest land so I'm pretty confident there's major roosting area somewhere around there.
As many of them as there are, I'm sure they target wildlife too if they get an opportunity.

You should spread the word around that they are digging up the dead after dark, I bet that would get peoples attention.

Ken

 

[Ky hills]

You should spread the word around that they are digging up the dead after dark, I bet that would get peoples attention.

Ken

Most people in town probably already know about them in the cemetery, I heard other people making jokes about it. Recently, there was an article in the local newspaper about the buzzards roosting in trees in town neighborhoods and what a mess they were making. Maybe if they get to roosting in the affluent subdivisions the local government will be compelled to act.

 

[Travlr]

I don't see buzzards as a political issue either, but the status of them is controlled by the government.
I won't move the discussion, was just thinking it might give a little more leeway to discuss different angles.
Its finally being acknowledged by the wildlife depts. and agriculture depts. of colleges that the buzzards are predatory.
Now if they would just start allowing for meaningful reduction of the birds like coyotes. Obviously it hasn't decreased the population of coyotes much, but would give farmers and ranchers a chance to alleviate the burden temporarily.

Ya know... birds are probably a lot smarter than we give them credit for. So are many animals. I'd bet that the vultures would learn to stay away fairly quickly if they were targeted around cows. But just like anything smart, they will take full advantage when bovine protectors are hobbled and they are made safe.
Are they so rare that an area couldn't test that theory? Maybe that's too esoteric for those making the rules to consider. In any case, if they aren't rare... they also aren't talking cartoon animals from Disney movies. Maybe all we need to do it get the animal rights a reality check and let them watch a video of a gang of vultures killing a cow giving birth.

Anybody have a cow they'd be willing to donate to the cause, and a way to video tape it and get it on youtube?

 

[50/50Farms]

Ya know... birds are probably a lot smarter than we give them credit for. So are many animals. I'd bet that the vultures would learn to stay away fairly quickly if they were targeted around cows. But just like anything smart, they will take full advantage when bovine protectors are hobbled and they are made safe.
Are they so rare that an area couldn't test that theory? Maybe that's too esoteric for those making the rules to consider. In any case, if they aren't rare... they also aren't talking cartoon animals from Disney movies. Maybe all we need to do it get the animal rights a reality check and let them watch a video of a gang of vultures killing a cow giving birth.

Anybody have a cow they'd be willing to donate to the cause, and a way to video tape it and get it on youtube?

They're not rare. In their adapted native range you'll see them 5-1 over turkey vultures. Most folks just slap a couple holes in a few here and there. You might overestimate their total intelligence though, I've seen them airmailed a few homeopathic mineral pills in the same tree multiple times over.

 

[Ky hills]

They definitely ain't rare. Rare would be the elusive black mountain lions that almost everbody but the fish and wildlife folks have seen once or twice these black buzzards are more like starlings in their numbers apparently. Any time you look to the sky anywhere around here you're subject to a few buzzards flying. The line the other day there was probably over 30 of them.

 

[kenny thomas]

They definitely ain't rare. Rare would be the elusive black mountain lions that almost everbody but the fish and wildlife folks have seen once or twice these black buzzards are more like starlings in their numbers apparently. Any time you look to the sky anywhere around here you're subject to a few buzzards flying. The line the other day there was probably over 30 of them.

I know that everyone has seen them but the North American Mountain Lion doesnt have a black hair gene so pretty impossible for them to be black.

 

[Ky hills]

I know that everyone has seen them but the North American Mountain Lion doesnt have a black hair gene so pretty impossible for them to be black.

Yeah that's why was saying they were rare. The funny thing is there's been a lot more people say they've seen black ones than the actual light brown colored ones.

 

[kenny thomas]

Yeah that's why was saying they were rare. The funny thing is there's been a lot more people say they've seen black ones than the actual light brown colored ones.

I worked in the some of the more remote areas of the southeast for 38 years plus coon hunted most of my life. I truly believe that there should be some of the brown ones here but have never seen the first track or found evidence of a kill. But i still check every mud hole for tracks.

 

[50/50Farms]

I worked in the some of the more remote areas of the southeast for 38 years plus coon hunted most of my life. I truly believe that there should be some of the brown ones here but have never seen the first track or found evidence of a kill. But i still check every mud hole for tracks.

I've seen mountain lions and their tracks in Appalachia multiple times, though never a black one. Some of them do run near chocolate colored and I think that's what the black sightings mostly are imo.

 

[kenny thomas]

I've seen mountain lions and their tracks in Appalachia multiple times, though never a black one. Some of them do run near chocolate colored and I think that's what the black sightings mostly are imo.

I totally agree and think they are here. I seen evidence that they were released in Smokey Mountain National Park to help control the deer population.
What area did you see them or the tracks?

 

[Ky hills]

I worked in the some of the more remote areas of the southeast for 38 years plus coon hunted most of my life. I truly believe that there should be some of the brown ones here but have never seen the first track or found evidence of a kill. But i still check every mud hole for tracks.

I've never seen one either but there are a couple folks that I believe are credible with no reason to make it up, that claim to have seen them. I also know several that I question the validity of too.
I've never even seen a bobcat personally but think I have heard them in the past when I could hear at least somewhat.
Few months back a neighbor that joins us got a picture of a big bobcat on her back porch, said she had seen it in her yard several times.