AL Pasture to Rail retained ownership program

[WarEagle73]

I mentioned in another thread a couple months ago that we were sending a bunch of our calves through a retained ownership program that is run by Extension in Alabama, and so I wanted to start a new thread to keep everyone updated on how it goes.

We sent 2 calves on the first load that went out in early October then 9 more on a load that went out yesterday. The calves are being fed at Hy-Plains Feedyard in Montezuma, KS. The purpose of the program is to get carcass and health data back (all the calves will be sold on a grid system), but I like it because it gives a small guy a chance to retain ownership on calves even if they don't have the numbers to fill a truck.

Here are some pictures of the calves we sent out.

The first load:

This is an AI sired steer by Connealy ROI 8841 out of an Angus sired heifer. He weighed 810 on his ship date.


Another AI sired steer by Connealy Consensus 7229 out of a 5 year old super baldie cow. Shipped at 792#.

Second load:

Steer sired by ourSimangus clean-up bulland an angus sired first calf heifer. Weighed out at 758#.


Heifer sired by our Simangus clean-up bull and an angus sired first calf heifer. Weighed out at 702#.


AI sired steer by Connealy Consensus 7229 out of a 6 year old super baldie cow. Shipped at 730#.

 

[WarEagle73]

More of the second load:


Steer sired by our Simangus clean-up bull and an old CharX cow we have on the farm. Weighed out at 766#.


Heifer sired by our Simangus clean-up bull and a young Angus sired cow that is pretty small framed. I think this calf is going to finish small and VERY fat, but hopefully she grades well. Weighed out at 742#.


This Heifer is the opposite. She is out of that Simangus bull and a framey super baldie cow. I think she is pretty much perfect for the program. Shipped at 730#.


Another Heifer sired by our Simangus clean-up bull and a young Angus sired cow. Weighed out at 760#.


Steer out of that same bull and an old cross bred cow with some holstein in her. Shipped at 724#.


And the last steer was a young, lightweight calf out of an old Angus cow we just sold and the Simangus bull. Shipped at 612#.

 

[WarEagle73]

And for reference, all the cows and heifers that were "sired by an Angus bull", this is the Angus bull

As I get more info about the cattle and how they perform, I will put it up here. Just wanted to share our experiences in this retained ownership deal so some of you that might be interested in doing it in the future might get some insight.

 

[TANK30705]

Will be paying attention!!!

 

[Kingfisher]

AI sired steer by Connealy Consensus 7229 out of a 6 year old super baldie cow. Shipped at 730#.
I think this one will do good.

 

[js1234]

Thats great. You are going to get some fantastic information that if utilized properly will allow you to make comprehensive management decisions. I've thought for years that all cow/calf guys should retain ownership on a set of calves to:
A. See how their calves really perform.
B. Have all tools available when making herd decisions moving forward.
C. See how cattle feeding really works and better understand that feedyards aren't "robbing" them.

 

[WarEagle73]

So just updating this post since we finally got all of our data back on all of the calves pictured! The pictures at the start of the thread are in order by AL ID (26,27 then 70-78) for reference. I'll also throw up some pictures of the calves themselves, that were taken at the end of February.

Overall we were really pleased with the results. 10 of 11 went Choice or better and we had basically no health issues. Growth wasn't bad, but it is an area I want to improve some, as well as the YGs. Still, all-in-all we made about $240/hd profit in the feeding phase and will definitely be sending more again this year!

 

[Ol' 243]

Subscribed

 

[WarEagle73]

Pictures taken late Feb


#26


#27


#70



#71

 

[WarEagle73]

#72

NO PICS OF #73


#74


#75


#76


#77


#78

 

[jscunn]

great info and with pictures.. I hope you can find some info in this deal to help you with your path forward. Looks like you had one prime too.(tag 71) One question what kind of feeding program did you have them on before delievery? (limit fed, full feed, no feed?) Also if you could change anything you did from last year what would it be?

Thanks for sharing.

 

[WarEagle73]

great info and with pictures.. I hope you can find some info in this deal to help you with your path forward. Looks like you had one prime too.(tag 71) One question what kind of feeding program did you have them on before delievery? (limit fed, full feed, no feed?) Also if you could change anything you did from last year what would it be?

Thanks for sharing.

They were on a self feeder with 50:50 Corn Gluten/Soyhulls. Two things I am changing:

1. Genetics. The simangus bull we used was SMALL. Like a FS 4. I might keep a couple of his daughters, but he just didn't pass on the frame for those calves to grow into. Lucky for us, this was his last calf crop.

2. Age and Size. The calves on the program that were over 750-800 seem to do a bit better. We definitely saw that on our calves. If we have the opportunity, we want to hold onto our calves until they are 800 or more.

They were a bit fleshier than I would like, but before I change or feeding program I want to see how some different genetics perform under the same management. Health and everything else was great, so I don't want to make a pile of changes to fix one or two issues.

It was some really awesome data that we never get to see. Hopefully we can keep doing it and see if we can really fine tune this deal in the future.

 

[jscunn]

In this program does it make sense to chase the quality grade premium or are you better off chasing HCW? I agree with you a smaller framed bull of any breed doesnt make a whole lot of sense if you are getting paid for cattle on the hook.

A friend who feeds out hundreds per year gave me a piece of advice that has stuck in my mind for years. It was " remember no matter what path you choose for your cattle they ALL end up swinging on a hook at some point" He also said that if you thought you were in the seedstock business your cattle are only one generation from being born to be hanging in 14 months. Sometimes we think we are in the business of raising bulls, replacement heifers, etc. but in reality we are still raising swinging pounds of protein.

 

[Son of Butch]

Soo interesting! Smart, photos to document as memories of what these were will fade as the next group comes in.
Thank You for sharing.

p.s.
70 did better than I expected and I expected better from 72... as I said, so interesting.

 

[WarEagle73]

In this program does it make sense to chase the quality grade premium or are you better off chasing HCW? I agree with you a smaller framed bull of any breed doesnt make a whole lot of sense if you are getting paid for cattle on the hook.

A friend who feeds out hundreds per year gave me a piece of advice that has stuck in my mind for years. It was " remember no matter what path you choose for your cattle they ALL end up swinging on a hook at some point" He also said that if you thought you were in the seedstock business your cattle are only one generation from being born to be hanging in 14 months. Sometimes we think we are in the business of raising bulls, replacement heifers, etc. but in reality we are still raising swinging pounds of protein.

I think you really have to chase Quality, Yield and HCW(and in turn ADG) to be profitable. What I really mean by that is you have to work to avoid the discounts: YG 4+, under 575 HCW, over 1050 HCW, and Select or lower QG. I consider Select a discount at this point, especially since the industry averages 70%+ Choice on all cattle. The only Premium that can overcome a discount is Prime, but is pretty hard to achieve consistently. On two loads (about 132 calves) in AL P2R there have only been 2 Prime calves so far. CAB is only $1.50-2/CWT HCW premium. YG 1's and 2's only get a $2-4/CWT HCW premium. On the other side YG4 is a $10/CWT HCW discount. YG5 is $20. Over 1050 is $20 I think. As of today, Select is a huge discount, along with Darkcutters, Hardbone, and no roll. I think big goals need to be having healthy calves that gain well and hang average or better.

Other side of this coin though is how much selection pressure do you need to put on feedlot performance if you are keeping the heifer mates to these calves for replacement heifers? I think selecting for REA and Marbling likely won't have a negative impact on the cowherd, but you have to walk a fine line with growth and HCW. We are reasonably happy with the growth on the majority of the calves, so we won't likely change our breeding program much in terms of WW and YW, but I probably will put more thought into Marbling. We are also talking about going to a truly terminal bull to clean up after AI. AI with maternal type bulls then clean up with a Charolais or power Simangus bull.

 

[talltimber]

Thanks for posting this. I have not retained any of my own, but am very curious, and a lot cautious.

 

[Son of Butch]

In this program does it make sense to chase the quality grade premium or are you better off chasing HCW?

I think you really have to chase Quality, Yield and HCW (and in turn ADG) to be profitable.
avoid the discounts: YG 4+, under 575 HCW, over 1050 HCW, and Select or lower QG. I consider Select a discount
The only Premium that can overcome a discount is Prime, but... hard to achieve consistently.
On two loads (about 132 calves) in AL P2R there have only been 2 Prime calves so far.

To say prime is hard to achieve is beyond an understatement.
In my opinion the only way it will be achieved with any consistency might be Wagyu.
But I think you'll give up so much in adg that it's not worth chasing.

BUT from a purely selfish point of view I would love to see you A.I. a few cows to Wagyu just to see the comparison.
Do It... Do It... Do It... but know I say that for my benefit... I do not have your best interest at heart.
Do it, Do it, Do it!

 

[Ol' 243]

What are the basics of how it works, as far as who's responsible for what, and how money is paid and divided?

 

[pdfangus]

Virginia has a similar program...When we had the herd I used to like to send a few every year just to monitor that we were aiming at the right target. It was a good sales tool to show bull customers as well...

 

[kd4au]

AU73,I live in north Alabama as well do they still have this program?I was planning to put calves in it a couple of years ago and I was to late for that year and haven't tried again.As for the calves that graded select that had some holstein in them,I sold some calves through a coop program a few years back that we got carcass data back from and two of those calves had some holstein in them and they were the only ones that graded select the rest were all choice and most of those calves were Brangus and Charolais.