AAA & NAIS

Help Support CattleToday:

Mahoney Pursley Ranch

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
2
Location
North Central Texas
Got a letter in the mail today from the American Angus Association and an application form to register for the National Animal Identification System stating that the AAA endorses the program. Whatcha ya'll think about that :?:
 
Reckon it don't matter much what we think.

You do what you think is right.

I registered my Premise two years ago.

Many have called me a fool but I think animal ID is a tool of the future.

The Angus association recieved a grant form USDA to promote Animal ID, so we will all be getting letters.
 
pdfangus":8vvp66zi said:
Reckon it don't matter much what we think.

You do what you think is right.

I registered my Premise two years ago.

Many have called me a fool but I think animal ID is a tool of the future.

I registered mine too. You know, its not so much the cattleman I get the hollering from, it's more the horse people
 
Wasn't really asking whether you thought I should register or not. Was more looking for what ya thought about any paticular breed association getting involved in what I consider government business. Not sure I think they should be endorsing something like that. Keep government out of private enterprise IMHO.
 
Mahoney Pursley Ranch":3w4857oh said:
Wasn't really asking whether you thought I should register or not. Was more looking for what ya thought about any paticular breed association getting involved in what I consider government business. Not sure I think they should be endorsing something like that. Keep government out of private enterprise IMHO.

So they endorse it, that doesn;t make it mandatory. You can still, supposedly, do what you want.
 
Mahoney Pursley Ranch":2ll4ne0l said:
Wasn't really asking whether you thought I should register or not. Was more looking for what ya thought about any paticular breed association getting involved in what I consider government business. Not sure I think they should be endorsing something like that. Keep government out of private enterprise IMHO.

I don't see it as a government issue.
I see it as an international trade issue.
I see it as an animal health issue.
I see it as a marketing and consumer choice issue.
The government has a logical role to establish standards and alleviate the problem of competing products with different technology that is not compatible.

If the processing sector would step up and pay real premiums for all this stuff that they want in the animal ID program that they had a big role in writing, then there would not be an acceptance issue. But the processing sector has gotten to be such a monopoly that they can create the program and hand it to the government to take the heat and processors go along paying commodity prices for all products.
 
Mahoney Pursley Ranch":3pmwx85d said:
Wasn't really asking whether you thought I should register or not. Was more looking for what ya thought about any paticular breed association getting involved in what I consider government business. Not sure I think they should be endorsing something like that. Keep government out of private enterprise IMHO.

I am a member of the AAA--this was a board and CEO decision and the members were not consulted...My thinking is that if they can get $580,000 selling their virtue- they could have taken a mail in vote or poll of the membership-- or at least notified them, so they didn't have to read it in the paper....

Like you say- they should be promoting angus cattle- and not a government program...

Too me this lowers the credibility of the AAA...If they will prostitute themselves out to the government- what else will they sell out to/for if the money is right?...How accurate is their data info- or will they cook the books if someone offers the right funding? Who else will they sell out membership and associate info to...

When I deal with an entity- I trust them to keep info I give them between them and I-- and don't want it sold to the highest bidders or anyone that flashes a couple bucks in their face...

Reminds me of the old story of the guy that asks the young lady if she will sleep with him for a million $...
"For a million $- sure" she answers.
"Will you sleep with me for $10?" asks the fella
"NO- what do you think I am?" asks the young lady..
"Well we've already decided that- now we are just haggling on price !!"
 
Oldtimer":25y7jy4t said:
Reminds me of the old story of the guy that asks the young lady if she will sleep with him for a million $...
"For a million $- sure" she answers.
"Will you sleep with me for $10?" asks the fella
"NO- what do you think I am?" asks the young lady..
"Well we've already decided that- now we are just haggling on price !!"

Actually THAT is a true story. That wasn't a young man either, that was a jesting Winston Churchill and the lady was some titled socialite at a dinner party.
 
one minor correction

the association did not sell your information to anyone.

they mailed you the information.

They did take money to mail the information but it does not quite rise to the level of prostitution you wish to make it out to be.

The largest registered beef cattle organization in this country took a grant to fund an education campaign to it's members.
 
why does the government need to be in business and why does it need to bribe to get essentially enforcement? there must be some benefit to the government if they are motivated to do something that producers should have come up with themselves. what is this benefit? i'm assuming this falls under the commerce clause and general welfare and benfit language. again, why is the government in business, and why is it the sole arbiter of pricing through subsidies and manipulative regulation to discourage profit, raise margins and obsfucate sovereignty? must be because we don't have a government, it's a transnational corporation. america is stupid. :mad:
 
Most of me is screaming to move on and not get into this yet again but I must.

knabe":2gvexuwh said:
why does the government need to be in business and why does it need to bribe to get essentially enforcement? there must be some benefit to the government if they are motivated to do something that producers should have come up with themselves. what is this benefit? i'm assuming this falls under the commerce clause and general welfare and benfit language. again, why is the government in business, and why is it the sole arbiter of pricing through subsidies and manipulative regulation to discourage profit, raise margins and obsfucate sovereignty? must be because we don't have a government, it's a transnational corporation. america is stupid. :mad:

why does the government need to be in business and why does it need to bribe to get essentially enforcement?

What business is the government not involved in on one way or another in this day and time?
Would you rather they mandate your compliance?

why is the government in business, and why is it the sole arbiter of pricing through subsidies and manipulative regulation to discourage profit, raise margins and obsfucate sovereignty?

I do not even begin to understand what the devil you are saying here. Last time I checked the capitalist system was the sole arbiter of pricing. It is called the law of supply and demand.

Maniulative regulation I will agree we are in it up to our necks in all phases of our life.

How do you discourage profit and raise margins in the same breath?

Whose soverignty is being obfuscated?
 
pdfangus":xfdul0nx said:
one minor correction

the association did not sell your information to anyone.

My understanding is that in order to be a part of the angus source program you will need to use NAIS premise qualified ID's-which will mean that all info will then be NAIS/USDA available...So if you have customers that want to be in the angus source program--they have to give the government/USDA access to the info-which will include your info if you were the seedstock provider... Info which we know if USDA has access to will be in the hands of multinational Packers which control them..
To me that is selling out your/my info...


they mailed you the information.
Well I guess its still in the pony express- since we never got any-- along with numerous other AAA members that first learned of it the same as I did when I read about it on another website a few weeks ago--AFTER the deal was already done...

This should be a market driven program-- if the multinationals think it is necessary they should pay a premium- and let the producer decide...But instead this Administration/USDA is bought out and controlled by the Packer lobbys, so are essentially mandating the program-saving the Packers from having to pay anything.....

A side note-- Montana has had a "working" ID system for over 100 years... I had a chance to talk with one of the Brand Inspector supervisors that worked the Bangs outbreak near Yellowstone Park-- and he said that the head USDA investigator told them that thru Montanas brand system, they were able to track the cattle that had left or came into those herds much faster and more extensively than the NAIS program ever could....So why should we have to adopt a system that is not working in Australia, had been admitted to by Bruce Knight (NAIS head man) that is technologically inadequate at this time, and that will cost $ millions to set up the infrastructure to operate and enforce?

Isn't our Federal Government big enough already--that now we don't need a bunch of Cow Gestapo running around enforcing new mandates...


.
 
September 12, 2007

Member Visits Sister Organization in Australia;

Describes Aussie Animal ID Program as 'Orwellian'



Note to Media: R-CALF USA National Membership Committee Co-Chair Joel Gill spent the last week in August 'Down Under' visiting members of our sister organization, the Australian Beef Association. His report is below. Gill also serves as the R-CALF USA Checkoff Committee Chair and is a cattle buyer based in Mississippi. To schedule an interview with Gill, or obtain a photo or bio of Gill, contact R-CALF USA Communications Coordinator Shae Dodson.



Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia – "G'Day," was the greeting on everyone's lips as I met each of the directors of R-CALF USA's sister organization, the Australian Beef Association (ABA), at its meeting before the annual convention, held here on Aug. 28. The ABA was formed in 1997 to represent independent cattle producers across Australia in their fight to be heard by Parliament/Congress in their struggles against the forces of powerful abattoirs/packers, the Meat and Livestock Australia/CBB, and the cattle council/NCBA.



These men and women face the same struggles as R-CALF USA members do. They have stood strong with their one underpaid employee, Secretary Sally Black, as she worked to assist the unpaid board of 14 and the other willing volunteers to bring their membership to a little over 1,000. (With only 20 million people occupying a nation the size of the United States, ABA's 1,000 members is about the same as R-CALF USA's 15,000 in a nation of 300 million citizens.)



It was uncanny how our two sagas meshed so well. While each of our groups seem to face issues at home, it became glaringly clear that it was actually rampant free trade agreements and the international corporations' desires for the lowest-cost products that are our mutual foes.

One of the areas of concern these producers have is the unworkable nature of Australia's National Livestock Identification System (NLIS), which became mandatory three years ago.


While not as comprehensive as our NAIS because NLIS covers only cattle, it was obvious that Australia's NLIS is a nightmarish system of Orwellian proportions. Besides the information put forward in the presentations during ABA's convention, discussions with individual ABA members brought home the message that the traceback system there is greatly flawed. Everyone had a story of varying tag retention rates in their animals – or beasts, as they call them. The few ABA members who stood up to the system by refusing to use the tags at first, told their tales of heavy fines levied and jail time threatened for non-compliance.



One of the ABA directors, Dr. Lee McNichol, a veterinarian, related how he had refused to use the tags and was fined $1,000 ($850 US), then spent another $20,000 appealing his conviction only to lose in the end. He showed me sheet after sheet attributing individual cattle to his pic (premises number) that he did not own. The database had it wrong. When McNichol questioned the compliance officer about this situation and pointed out the error, he was told that it was an administrative matter and could be quickly corrected as soon as the particular animals were moved or sold and thus re-scanned. At that time, the administrator would know where the animals were actually located and a correction could occur.



So much for accurate disease traceback.



Others told how the actual tag retention rate was around 70 percent to 82 percent – not anywhere close to the nearly 100 percent suggested by early data from U.S. animal identification projects as reported by USDA to U.S. producers about the effectiveness of the Australian system. Some of this excessive loss is due to poor application procedures of producers, but most is due to the net-type of fencing widely utilized by producers, which will snag and pull out the tags as the calves rub their heads in it. Far from receiving any kind of premium for participation, if tag replacement is needed, a new orange RFID tag will be inserted in the animal's ear. All cattle with these orange ear tags receive a discount at sale because they no longer qualify as having "guaranteed lifetime traceability". (The original tags are white.) These producers' experiences should give each of us in R-CALF USA a boost to help us continue to energize our fight against NAIS.



Now that Australia is three years into the program, the truth is coming out. While there, the Australian agriculture ministers said several times that this system was crucial for "Assuring our trading partners of age and source verification."



What happened to health traceback?



During my one-week stay, a true health crisis did arise. Equine influenza was discovered, which brought all movement of horses nationwide to a complete halt, much as would happen in the U.S. if a case of foot-and-mouth disease were detected in cattle. Horse racing, the third largest industry in Australia, was delayed nationwide, but ultimately reopened everywhere except the states of Queensland and New South Wales, which are still counting the costs of the suspension in the tens of millions of dollars, not only to the racing industry, but to the smaller supporting industries as well. The culprits turned out to be two horses imported from Japan that were improperly inspected. Outside imports ruined an economically important national industry.


Can anyone say Canadian BSE?
 

Latest posts

Top