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<blockquote data-quote="Warren Allison" data-source="post: 1843787" data-attributes="member: 40587"><p>I got started fooling with cows, because of my grandaddy, in the 60's Back then, all we had down here in the south were Hereford and Angus, and a <em>big </em>cow was 800 lbs, and only as tall as the waist line of a grown man. Late 60's the first Simmental and Charolais made their way down here, and first to arrive were the bulls. They quickly became known as "pallet-headed cow-killers". Pulling calves and burying cows became routine, when these bulls were bred to the Her. and Ang. cows. Back then, the Simms were the red & whites, like the ones in Europe called Fleckveih. Both breeds were mostly horned. Eventually, as you started seeing more and more Char and Simm cows down here, people learned that if you did it the other way, Ang and Herf bulls to Simm and Char cows, you got <em>polled</em> calves with a lot of hybrid vigor. And, you didn't have calving problems breeding Char to Simm, or SImm to Char. All these crosses did not negatively influence weight gain, it was quite the contrary. Simms were great milkers, and Char had a reputation for growth. Today in America, Chars are for the most part polled, and the bulls are no longer called "pallet-headed cow-killers". Today's Simmental here are a lot different, since breeders turned the herds black. No more cow-killers, most all are polled, and their marbling rivals that of Angus. They may be my favorite bos taurus cows. What type Simms are there in your area? Herf and Angus have long been noted for their docility. Many claim that Herf are the best mothers there is, and Angus can be <em>too good</em> of a mother, especially that 1st week after they calf. A lot of Angus become man-eaters those first few days after calving. I have found, that Char and Simm cows are just as docile as the other 2 breeds. Of course, there are crazy and dangerous individuals in any and all breeds. With you dad going to be doing the calving, if you get any Angus cows, just tell him to leave them be the first week after they calve. </p><p></p><p>Being in the dairy business I assume you AI? If so, maybe get some cows/heifers of both...Char and Simm? AI your heifers to Ang and Herf, then 2nd calf and on, use Char and Simm. Do some straight Sim and some straight Char, and cross up some to get the Char/Simms. After a time, you will decide what works best for you. Maybe you will decide to keep fooling with all 4 breeds, or eliminate 1 or 2. Ever how many CT members on here, is how many opinions you could get, but you will find the one you form based on what you experience, will be the most valuable. Limousine and Gelbeiv are the 2 I have the least experience or knowledge about, because the few I have fooled with soured me. They were crazy, and/or mean, and/or flighty, or all 3. But then again, I will hear people say that about Brahmas, and Gerts, and I have no more trouble with them, than I do Ang or Herf. How many head of brood cows do you intend to run?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Warren Allison, post: 1843787, member: 40587"] I got started fooling with cows, because of my grandaddy, in the 60's Back then, all we had down here in the south were Hereford and Angus, and a [I]big [/I]cow was 800 lbs, and only as tall as the waist line of a grown man. Late 60's the first Simmental and Charolais made their way down here, and first to arrive were the bulls. They quickly became known as "pallet-headed cow-killers". Pulling calves and burying cows became routine, when these bulls were bred to the Her. and Ang. cows. Back then, the Simms were the red & whites, like the ones in Europe called Fleckveih. Both breeds were mostly horned. Eventually, as you started seeing more and more Char and Simm cows down here, people learned that if you did it the other way, Ang and Herf bulls to Simm and Char cows, you got [I]polled[/I] calves with a lot of hybrid vigor. And, you didn't have calving problems breeding Char to Simm, or SImm to Char. All these crosses did not negatively influence weight gain, it was quite the contrary. Simms were great milkers, and Char had a reputation for growth. Today in America, Chars are for the most part polled, and the bulls are no longer called "pallet-headed cow-killers". Today's Simmental here are a lot different, since breeders turned the herds black. No more cow-killers, most all are polled, and their marbling rivals that of Angus. They may be my favorite bos taurus cows. What type Simms are there in your area? Herf and Angus have long been noted for their docility. Many claim that Herf are the best mothers there is, and Angus can be [I]too good[/I] of a mother, especially that 1st week after they calf. A lot of Angus become man-eaters those first few days after calving. I have found, that Char and Simm cows are just as docile as the other 2 breeds. Of course, there are crazy and dangerous individuals in any and all breeds. With you dad going to be doing the calving, if you get any Angus cows, just tell him to leave them be the first week after they calve. Being in the dairy business I assume you AI? If so, maybe get some cows/heifers of both...Char and Simm? AI your heifers to Ang and Herf, then 2nd calf and on, use Char and Simm. Do some straight Sim and some straight Char, and cross up some to get the Char/Simms. After a time, you will decide what works best for you. Maybe you will decide to keep fooling with all 4 breeds, or eliminate 1 or 2. Ever how many CT members on here, is how many opinions you could get, but you will find the one you form based on what you experience, will be the most valuable. Limousine and Gelbeiv are the 2 I have the least experience or knowledge about, because the few I have fooled with soured me. They were crazy, and/or mean, and/or flighty, or all 3. But then again, I will hear people say that about Brahmas, and Gerts, and I have no more trouble with them, than I do Ang or Herf. How many head of brood cows do you intend to run? [/QUOTE]
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